A BASIC QUESTION...
What is the difference between a concertina and a accordion?
Yes I have a 30 button anglo that I have no doubt about and I know it looks and sounds different from a piano type accordion.
But there are so many variables in-between. Bandoneon, Hayden, Crane, Maccann type duets, Chemnitzer.. just to name a few.
It gets abit confusing if you`re not experienced with these instruments. Are there any types very close where you might call it
either...or? How and where do you draw the line?

The names are just what they were called when introduced and sold and often reflect musical possibilities , melody, chords, in concert, Bandoneon etc. many of the names stuck eg melodeon, and are used in various countries to describe generic types of instrument. In England a melodeon often describes most diatonic accordions. Some are called after the town or where they were made eg Chemnitz, Klingenthal,

So the main feature is free reeds, Then is it unisonic or bisonic? i.e. Do you get the same note on the push and pull (English Concertina. Piano Accordion)or two ( mouth organ, Anglo Concertina, Button Accordion, Melodeon) etc etc.
The names get complicated but it is a useful question and I wish I had known years ago when someone blinded me with too much info on concertinas and put me off for years!

There are many "definitions" of concertina and accordion - most which have been written by people who don't know much about them or the differences between them. But basically:

Squeezeboxes are portable, bellows-driven, free-reed musical instruments.

By "portable" we mean "can be played while moving (being ported) about". IOW, harmoniums, rocking melodeons, reed organs... are all bellows-driven, free-reed musical instruments, but they are not "portable" and therefore not squeezeboxes.

The two branches of our squeezebox family are concertinas and accordions of which there are two subtypes on each side (unisonoric and bisonoric). Each of these subtypes has a myriad permutations (subsubtypes?) with some so fantastic that they broach the bounds of other subtypes as well as the two original branches as well.

But back to your main question: What is the difference between a concertina and a accordion?

Concertinas have keys operating parallel to the bellows travel
and accordions have keys operating perpendicular to the bellows travel.

As I'd mentioned, people's views of the definition vary though this is the one *I* like the best. It's clear and all-encompassing. Sure there are squeezeboxes which are so commingled that it seems impossible to peg, but by understanding the underlying design (or origin/basis) of the box one can easily peg it.

A piano accordion is a unisonoric accordion.

Which are all concertinas. None of those are "in between". Even things like Harry Geuns' "hybrids" are in actuality concertinas despite an accordion-style chromatic key layout and the not parallel-nor-perpendicular keyboard arrangement.

I find it pretty easy to "draw the line". Using the definitions here should make it pretty easy for anyone to differentiate them. You can always post photos of ones you're unsure of for the rest of us to peg.

-- Rich --

Another possible distinction: Most (but not all) concertinas have a single reed sounding when you play a note. Most (but not all) accordions have multiple reeds, often intentionally tuned slightly off eachother. To my ears a concertina has a much purer tone as a result. The classification based on whether the buttons are parallel or perpendicular to the direction of bellows travel (and the bisonoric-unisonoric distinction) affect how you build and play the instrument; the single reed versus multiple reed distinction has a more direct influence on how the instruments sound.

One thing I've noticed is that concertinas have a similar button 'concept' on both sides of the instrument, while accordions have different concepts on each side. Most accordions play chords (with some single notes) on the left hand side, with either a diatonic or chromatic layout on the right. But even the 'free bass' accordions use a different arrangement of buttons on the left from the right from what I have seen. I haven't seen all the accordions there are to possibly see, though, so there may be one or two (or a hundred) that I've missed.

However, this is I think a more important distinction than the simple mechanics of the action because it affects in a very clear and basic way the way the instrument is used. On a concertina the melody can go from the left hand to the right hand and back, while on an accordion the melody will only ever be on the right hand, with the left only for accompianment. While this style is an option for the Duet, Anglo, Bandoneon, and Chemnitzer it is very nearly obligatory for an accordion.

This is not an uncommon opinion, but it is not universally accepted so YMMV. By this definition the Geuns hybrids are concertinas, but the Dipper Franglo is not. This is a controversial point, but it comes back to how the instrument is designed to be used.

The bottom line for me is that a concertina isn't just 'a small accordion,' nor is an accordion an overgrown concertina -- they are different instruments in the same larger family (bellows-driven free-reeds), the way flutes and clarinets are both woodwinds yet they are each distinct.

But if chemnitzers and bandoneons are concertinas then it may be possible that nearly half of all concertinas have multiple reeds per note.

I think that the better classification is one which is more definitive. When it comes to squeezeboxes being classified by build (construction design) or sound, my experience is that a huge percentage of concertinas are multiple reeded (as most accordions are), and many accordions are single reeded (and most can be played with stops to be single reeded). While it's pretty easy to tell the sound difference between a multiple-reeded squeezebox and a single-reeded one, it's extremely difficult (impossible?) to tell the sound difference between most single-reeded concertinas (the ones with accordion reeds) and single-reeded accordions.

Classification by sound (single vs multiple reeds/note) would ensure that about half of all concertinas are misclassified and a small percentage of accordions are misclassified.

Unfortunately how one plays an instrument is a poor criteria for classification. If a violin is played under one's chin, or against the chest, or on one's thigh facing outward.... are these the same instrument? Or if it is bowed or plucked? Has doubled same-tone strings or drone strings? Played with single notes or cross-bowed with drones going?

-- Rich --

Or perhaps Accordion is an instrument, able to play a chord with depressing only one button?. So it's called ACCORDION, not Perpendicularbuttononion, nor Pianokeyonion.
Concertinas, as it came to be, play melody on both sides, so they are more difficult to master, but able to play more complex arrangements.
The direction of the key travel, size and shape of the key, size and shape of the cabinetry is irrelevant, just like not only Ukrainians are called "People".
Geuns Hybrid is definitely Concertina, and those cool Russian free-bass-only Bayans are not Accordions anymore, but concertinas.
Russians distinguish between Akkordeons (Piano Accordions), Bayans (Button Accordions) and Garmonicas (Button Diatonic Accordions), all of the above commonly called "Garmoshkas".
It's interesting to note, that the word Bayan, which today also means Russian system Free Bass (ascending scale from bottom up) is sometimes attributed to Piano Accordion with free bass as well.
Are stationary Melodeons (or Harmoniums) fall under "Aerophone"?

> The bottom line for me is that a concertina isn't just 'a small accordion,' nor
> is an accordion an overgrown concertina -- they are different instruments in the
> same larger family (bellows-driven free-reeds), the way flutes and clarinets are
> both woodwinds yet they are each distinct.

But clarinets and flutes have a very different method of producing sound, while concertinas and accordions use essentially the same method. It's more like the difference between a trumpet and a French horn. They both use buzzing lips to produce the sound, use a long tube to amplify and project the sound, and have valves to control the length of the tube, affecting the pitch. And you could easily build an instrument with aspects of each which would be not clearly one or the other -- for example, the mellophone, which uses trumpet-style valves and has a shorter bore than the French horn, but plays in the key of the horn and has a large bell like a horn, and a tone somewhat between the two of them.

The words "concertina" and "accordion" are just names used when the instruments were developed, they weren't devised to signify any technical, distinct differences.  Accordions and concertinas are artificial objects, which can be constructed using any arbitrary size, number of reeds per note, number of notes per button, key travel direction, shape, reed type, etc. The note layout is the most important distinction, really, since the layout determines if you can play it or not, no matter if it's called a concertina or an accordion, or neither.

If anything, the names accordion and concertina describe the history of the development of the instrument, not the instrument itself, if you see what I mean. Some instruments fit strongly in one "tradition," others borrow from both or have new developments not known in either branch, and that's when it becomes complicated and the terms can become essentially meaningless.

I think that Rich's definition of the distinction between the accordion and the concertina is the clearest and most helpful. However, I would point out that the keys on accordions are not always exactly perpindicular to the bellows (i.e., the bass side of a piano accordion). For simplicity's sake, I usually tell people that that the keys of an accordion are on the front and the keys of a concertina are on the side. I know of no exceptions to this. I'll also mention that the French harmoneon (a type of accordion) uses the Bassetti fingering system on both the bass and treble sides.

Yes, but whether there's an exception or not, it doesn't tell you much about why you'd want to play or listen to one or the other.  For a beginner who wants to know the difference, the way it's played and the way it sounds is much more important.  The construction methods are way down the list.  Just because it may be the most unequivocal distinction doesn't mean it's the most important one.

Maybe the thing to do would be to ask the original poster what they want to know about the differences?  To an outsider, the setting each tends to be found in might be the most important distinction, even though that has very little to do with the physical instrument itself.

The accordion was invented in Vienna, where they speak German. The German word "Akkord" means "chord". So the distinguishing feature of the accordion is that the left-hand end is set up to play chords, rather than single notes.

All the concertinas have single notes on both ends.
On the English concertina, the scale zig-zags between the ends. On the German and Anglo-German, the scale overlaps both ends. On the duets, the single-note layout on both ends is similar, but with a lower range on the left.

As someone pointed out, there are both diatonic and chromatic instances of both the accordion and the concertina.

Accordions, I think, mostly have multiple reeds per (right-hand, single-note) button, but there are both single-reed and double-reed concertinas. The Bandoneon, with its octave-tuned double reeds, is a variant of the concertina, because the (melodic) scales cross over between the hands, like on the Anglo.

A purely free-bass accordion may be a special case. At least it has a feature shared by most other accordions - the descant side is strapped to the player, and the pressure is applied by the left hand only. As far as I know, all concertinas are blown by the pressure or tension of the two hands.

So the basic distinction is: chord buttons on the left = accordion; note buttons left and right = concertina.

(A secondary distinction, to account for some marginal instruments, might be: same fingering system left and right = concertina; different fingering systems left and right = accordion.)

That's how I see it, anyway!

Cheers,
John

The most significant difference that I have found, and I've been known to play both, is that when you pull out an accordion you risk being perceived immediately as a dork, but when you pull out a concertina you are perceived as exotic.

That's not a very technical distinction, of course, nor is it universal, but I find it helpful to keep in mind.

Similarly, when playing my D/G accordion, I've found it useful to respond to the question "Is that an accordion?" by saying, "Well, actually, it's an English-style melodeon." Readers of this forum may know that to be nonsense, but I like to think it helps shift me toward the exotic, in the questioner's mind. Especially if they are female. And attractive. You know.

All of which is certainly beside the point of the original question, but perhaps shouldn't be. Naming and categorizing can have many motives, some of which are more urgent than others.

Make the distinctions that are useful to you. Perhaps that's all we ever do anyway.

But I'm pretty sure that the first accordions ONLY played chords (they had no single note keys), and that those chord keys were played by the right hand. Having the left hand play chord keys and the right hand play single notes came later.

And then there are bass accordions which have only one keyboard with single notes in the bass range played with the left hand. And cello accordions with a single-note keyboard on the right hand. And then there are flutinas which have a single-note treble right hand and no chords on the left....

-- Rich --

First accordions were left hand only chord instruments. Someone got the brainwave a little later (mid 1830's or so) to glue a flutina (right hand only diatonic scale instrument) to an accordion. Stephen Chambers has pictures and descriptions of the early accordions in his private collection article on concertina.com. He may have a flutina, too, but I forget if he does or not.

Thats funny MUTT....about the Accordion dork thing.... Why is that? Maybe its a generational perception like comparing Johnny Depp to Lawrence Welk? ......Lawrence Welk...God bless him ....he and his crew played some very technical stuff but he may have put the accordion on ice for a few decades due to the image he projected.

Lawrence Welk played very technically, but very simple music. Boring and unsophisticated. Repetitive melodies and repetitive style. So yes, for US audience he discredited accordion big time.
But anybody else in the big World have no clue of what Welk was, and hold accordion in very high esteem.
I can't see how this
can be considered Dorky.

Yup, it's the Lawrence Welk thing, at least where I live. It can be overcome, but you have to keep your audience IN THE ROOM first.

And as I said, it's not universal. I even see the accordion showing up a lot in newer, younger hip bands, so no damage is irreversible.

And Mr. Dmitriev is stunning. Wow. Thanks for the link, m3838.

Of course, in this forum, we're all about concertinas. I think the key is to get Paul McCartney to play one on a big hit. I mean, it worked for the mandolin, right? But perhaps that's for another topic.

Rich,
Interesting about the early one-sided accordion! I suppose you'd really have to call it a "proto-accordion", because for a century and a half now, the things we call "accordions" have had two playable ends. And one end still has chord buttons!
Bass accordion - cello-accordion - are these truly accordions? Or are they just so dubbed , as the "bass fiddle" is so dubbed because it "wants" to belong to the violin family, although it's basically a fretless viol? And the flutina is honest enough to call itself a "flutina" ...

As to free-bass accordions - the only kind I know personally is the Russian bayan, with a "convertible" left end, switchable between chord-button and note-button systems. So it's still an accordion by my definition, though with distinctly enhanced (in my opinion, improved!) capabilities.

I suppose a large, rectangular, strapped-on free-reed instrument with identical fingering systems left and right would be best termed a "duet accordion"

Cheers,
John

Yes they are. They are different from most accordions in that they only have a single keyboard. The other side has a single air-dump lever.
Despite that they have no chords and only ONE keyboard, I believe that they are accordions.

There are many free-bass only (on the bass side) accordions. Giulietti was a big importer to the USA of free-bass accordions (both piano and chromatic forms) which he called "bassetti" bass. Only his largest, most expensive boxes had both free-bass and stradella which he called "converter" accordions.
Which well describes the chemnitzer and bandoneon (which are concertinas!).

-- Rich ---

Thank you very much gentlemen for all the info.... much more satisfying revealing answers than I had expected.
Now... does anyone out there know how to play Lawrence Welk`s theme song on concertina??!!

Rich,
I don't quite get that!
Isn't the defining chracteristic of the duet concertinas that each hand has its own complete keyboard and can play independently, whereas the English and Anglo concertinas have the scales spread over both ends? (English: alternate notes left and right; Anglo: low notes left, high notes right) And the Bandoneon at least is very like the Anglo in this respect. I've never played a Cemnitzer or Carlsfelder, but from looking at their button layouts, it looks like their scales overlap the ends in a similar way.
And isn't a "bisonoric duet" a contradiction in terms? As soon as the bellows direction narrows down the choice of available notes, the independence of the hands - the main reason for having duets - is severely restricted.

Cheers,
John

The problem with accordions, in English folk music anyway, is that all too often the people who play them seem content to play in quite a limited way. When someone brings an accordion to a session, my haert sinks because the likelihood is that they will play in a very turgid fashion with little rhythmic emphasis. And although they have 120 bass buttons, they'll ignore most of them in favour of a simple and unimaginative 3-chord trick.

Fortunately there are exceptions to this, but not many, at least that's been my experience.

I remember going to a session one day and the only place vacant was next to a piano accordeon player. It was no use as my concertina and flute were no match for his hellish colossus. It was like sitting next to a church organ. My Aeola I play these days would have been a better match, but as he wasn't playing very good (nor very bad) and I quite dislike the sound of the piano accordeon (sorry to all those who play it) there wouldn't have been a point in staying. So I went to the bar to find consolation in drink and there I met a lovely lady who is still a good friend of mine. Proving that the piano accordian can have its use and benefit for me too!

My comment was in response to your description, not to your conclusion. Sorry that I wasn't clear about that.

Yes, anlgos (and chemnitzers and bandoneons) have their ranges spread over both sides, but so do duets. And you can play complete tunes on either side of an anglo, chemnitzer, bandoneon or duet.

The restriction of notes on a bisonoric instrument is mostly due to a limited number of buttons. The more buttons the more duplicated tones on the other bellows direction. Some of the larger (more buttoned) concertinas have most notes available in both bellows direction. In fact bandoneon players play very complex pieces almost exclusively on the pull.

I also note that there are at least two fingering systems that are bisonoric, have just about every not duplicated on push and pull, with low end on the left and high on the right, *and* is isomorphic. Sort of a like a bisonoric Hayden duet.

-- Rich --

My favorite T-shirt:

-- Rich --

I was sorely disappointed when I pressed the "HERE" button.

Dang!! This was supposed to be a "Quote".

Must be a dead link! You should hear the sound it makes when *I* wear the shirt.

-- Rich --

Hm.
Considering there is no such thing, as "sound of the piano accordion", that is specifically different from the sound of any other free reed instruments, what part of it you dislike?
The sound of one reed of piano accordion, esp. in reed chamber, is quite sweet and elegant, and not loud at all.
But it's an interesting topic, given vast quantity of various types, cabinets, button/keys layouts and left/right combination.
What would you consider Schweizer Orgeli to be? It' has bysonoric three row fully chromatic right keyboard, that has usual accordionish direction of button travel, but three or two rows of the uni-sonoric buttons on the left, arranged in concertina fashion, playing either chords, or single notes. It's small, portable, and has characteristic sound due to it's traditional tuning.
Bass accordion can't be considered here, as it is a marginal conversion, like single action double bass EC, foot bass, or Irish chromatic with bass side converted to play single basses.

Good holiday?

Glad you asked.
Russian River Canoe trip, tipping over a few times. losing and finding my floating cell phone, quitting my highly paying semi-corporate job and enrolling in massage therapy school - huge career change with half the former salary, if lucky.
Very energizing experience, I feel like walking on air, been very agitated at the same time. Very scary, yet satisfying. A little strange at school, where during my first 4 days I still can't understand the structure and feel like I haven't been taught anything. But a 1000 mile journey begins and ends, as we all know, so the main part, as Napoleon used to say, puffing smoke with his pipe, is to get engaged, then it'll be seen. So perhaps I can go to concertina festivals doing free massage "walk throughs". I'm sure you all need it badly.
The only problem is to keep my mouth shut when they load me with "connecting the body, mind and soul" BS.
I'm afraid I'm not cynical enough for this "philosophy". Haven't touched concertina in 2-3 weeks in a row. No time.
There you go.

So.....you had a good holiday then? (apart from the lack of practice which would clearly be a black mark)

Asymetric keyboards, plays chords -- accordion by the definition I favor.
'...usual accondionish direction of button travel...' -- accordion by the definition Mr. Morse favors.

Accordion no matter how you slice and dice it.

My sister works as a massage therapist. Car insurance companies will pay for people to get massage after accidents, also it is sometimes prescribed by doctors for tension and thus covered by medical insurance (depending on the policy). Regardless, it is doubtful that there's huge money there. Not that money is everything. You can't buy happiness, they say (though it seems to me that you can sure enough purchase a pretty fair approximation of it -- but that's just me being bitter about a lack in positive cash accumulation in my own accounts I'm sure). Oh, and the foofy new age stuff is semi-obligatory, like getting a fortune cookie with the bill in a Chinese restaurant. People will be disappointed if you didn't have crystals and incense and all that goofy crap. Or meaningful transcendental ambiance if you're into that kind of thing -- I don't want to harsh anyone's mellow here.

Misha,
You set me thinking, and that's always dangerous ...

So just let me jot down some thoughts:

1. I'm one of those who squirms when someone unpacks a piano-accordion. But I'll listen to a Russian street musician playing his bayan for hours on end (and even put money in his hat!)

2. You should know that musical instruments don't make sounds. Well, sounds, perhaps, but not music. It's the system consisting of instrument and musician that makes music.

3. A very musical friend of mine, a violinist, decided to take up the accordion. Seriously. With a professional accordion teacher. And with a "proper" accordion - that is, a chromatic button accordion. because of the musical capabilities it offers. Obtaining this turned out to be the first problem. As his Russian teacher (and bayan virtuoso) pointed out, you usually have to buy a button accordion new. Piano-accordions are available en masse second-hand. Why? Because people who have learnt piano or keyboard, and want to take up something more portable, think that the piano-accordion must be a cinch to learn. They don't see the accordion as an instrument in its own right, that one has to learn from scratch. Some of them manage to learn the bass-chord-chord left-hand accompaniment and the three-chord trick; some don't, and sell their PAs second-hand. The ones who buy button accordions are the ones who are going to stick at it and keep their instruments.
So the statistical tendency is for chromatic button accordions to be played by serious musicians (including serious amateurs), and for piano-accordions to be played by wannabe free-reeders who've had piano lessons.

Don't get me wrong - there are some very good, classical piano-accordionists around, especially here in the German south-west, where the Accordion Clubs give youngsters an opportunity to try their hand at the PA as their first instrument, and promote the truly musical ones (my wife had a couple of these in her primary-school class a few years ago - they added a touch of class to school concerts!) But, unfortunately, the ex-piano pupils who have mastered the three-chord trick outweigh the true piano-accordionists.
And that's what makes the "piano-accordion sound".
A person who totes a chromatic button accordion has invariably learnt the accordion as such.

Just my thoughts on the topic.
Cheers,
John

I do not know much about PA but the things I refer too are big, have piano like keys on one side and a million bass or whatever buttons on the other. I just do not like the sound coming out of it. Why? I don't know. Why some people do not like fish or cheese and why I do love it? If I would find reasons why I do not like the PA you will tell me perhaps that those reasons are exactly the ones that make you love the instrument. I especially dislike the PA in ITM (let them play Musettes on a Parisian street corner!).

Will a day of canoeing on Russian River, with picnics along the way, with refreshing dips be considered a good holiday?

Yes. This month I will have to survive.
I'm a believer in self-healing idea, but I am also a believer of talent. Some can, most can't.
Today I had to sit through an idiotic lesson about setting goals in life, with very American "You can do it" message.
I say, what americans lack is healthy dose of cynicism and intolerance to banality. Never mind I pay $1700 a month for such crap. I'm not even sure if I agree to take payment to sit through such party lines.
But I lived through it. Wha's worth, is some students behave as though they just have fallen from the trees. They bring burgers to the class, eat on massage tables, pop-open cans of soft drinks in the middle of lecture. Tomorrow I will come to Director of Education and complain.
The foofy stuff, that's it. Connecting the mind and the soul. Reiki treatment by conducting a Holy Spirit to come down.
No, I will use the common sense simplicity: Astral signs everywhere, transcedental music, awkward poses held for hours, and lectures about how it happened that Mohammad came back in the image of Jesus.

Queen Kathy thought it was.