On another thread I suggested that music arranged for a tenor-treble EC might fit nicely on a staff with 8 lines with middle C on the 3rd line and an alto clef (C clef) marking that line. This way the top five lines of the staff are the same as the treble clef and the bottom has the lines on the left hand, spaces on the right pattern and goes only a little bit below the staff. I figured out (fairly quickly) how to do this using abc plus and applied it to the Flying Cloud Gallop, which was posted here some time ago. I had typeset the arrangement from the 19th century using abc plus so I could experiment with different ways of playing the arrangement (including a version with the left hand in bass clef and the right in treble for a Crane duet-- I still haven't mastered playing it yet).

To get this version I used
K:F clef=C3 stafflines=8
for the key designation.

This version has two voices rather separated-- it's just the piano version with the left hand in one voice and the right in the other.

Click to view attachment

Also continuing the discussion on terminology from the earlier thread, I wonder whether this "trouble" over "treble" isn't simply different usage between UK and US. I also play recorder, and the instrument which in the UK is known as a "treble" recorder is known as an "alto" in the US. Similarly there is the "descant" (UK) and "soprano" (US), both different terms for the same instrument.

Since the concertina was an English invention it is perhaps not surprising that it adopted English terminology.

Some might prefer
K:F clef=G4 stafflines=7
which uses a treble clef with the top matching the usual staff and the bottom a fifth down, so matching the fingering on the bottom of a tenor treble.

Larry,

Wouldn't an 8-line stave be even more confusing than a 5-line stave with ledger lines?

Cheers,
John

The 8 line version is a bit hard to read-- I think I like the 7 line with treble clef better. A grand staff with treble and bass clefs joined with a single ledger line between them for middle C might be easier to read, but I'm not so good on bass clef. I don't see very well, so ledger lines don't give me quite enough visual cue on the note-- a more stable staff will be easier for me.

The idea here came from the second example on
http://www.violadamore.com/scordatura
which uses a 9 line staff. The lower end of the instrument is on the bottom of the staff and the top is on top, just like in the 7 line treble version for T-T EC. It is a little confusing in the middle range.

I'll try it for tenor-treble arrangements, but I don't think there are enough of us playing those instruments from written arrangements for a new notation to catch on.

It would be great if you could post the source so that I/we could experiment.

I don't generally have problems reading from normal treble, to be honest. Certainly guitarists don't object to going down to the E (or sometimes D), and for a tenor range, it's only a little bit worse! Handwritten music is less clear, I find, but that might be my handwriting!

Here it is--
If you use abc plus this version will give the 7 line version. I used abcm2ps to do the processing.

X:1
T:The Flying Cloud
T: Gallop
M:2/4
L:1/8
%%staves (1 2)
V: 1 %name="right hand" %clef=treble
V: 2 %name="left hand" %clef=bass
%K:F clef=C3 stafflines=8
K:F clef=G4 stafflines=7
[V:1] A/B/|cc ff|F F/G/ Ac|c/d/B/G/ Ec| A2 F a/b/|
[V:2] z|"F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]| "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]|"Gm"C,[G,B,][G,B,][G,B,]|"F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]|
[V:1]c'c' f'f'|f f/g/ ac'| c'/d'/b/g/ ec'| f2 z:|:
[V:2] "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]| "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]|"Gm"C,[G,B,][G,B,][G,B,]|"F"F,[A,C]F,:|:
[V:1] C/D/|[CE][DF][EG][FA]|[G2B2] z c/d/| [ce][df][eg][fa] | [g2b2] z a/b/|
[V:2] z|C,/C/C,/C/ C,/C/C,/C/|"C7"C,/C/C,/C/ C, z| C,/C/C,/C/ C,/C/C,/C/|C,/C/C,/C/ C, z|
[V:1] c'c' f'f'|f f/g/ ac'| c'/d'/b/g/ ec'| f2 z:|:
[V:2] "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]| "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]|"Gm"C,[G,B,][G,B,][G,B,]|"F"F,[A,C]F,:|:
[V:1] [K:Bb]f|=efef| g2 fd|f2 ec|g2 ff|
[V:2] [K:Bb]z|"Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"F7"A,[CEF][CEF][CEF]|"Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|
[V:1] =efef| gfbd|fegf|B2 z2:|
[V:2] "Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"F7"A,[CEF][CEF][CEF]|"Bb"B,[DF]B,2:|
[V:1]c/=e/|f c2 d/=e/|f c2 d/=e/|f c2 d/=e/|ff/f/f g/f/|
[V:2]z|F,[A,C] F,[B,D]|F,[A,C] F,[B,D]|F,[A,C] F,[B,D]|[F,A,C]z z2|
[V:1] =efef| gfbd|fegf|B2 z c/=e/|
[V:2] "Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"F7"A,[CEF][CEF][CEF]|"Bb"B,[DF]B, z|
[V:1]c/=e/|f c2 d/=e/|f c2 d/=e/|f c2 d/=e/|ff/f/f g/f/|
[V:2]z|F,[A,C] F,[B,D]|F,[A,C] F,[B,D]|F,[A,C] F,[B,D]|[F,A,C]z z2|
[V:1] =efef| gfbd|fegf|B2 z [K:F] A/B/|
[V:2] "Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"F7"A,[CEF][CEF][CEF]|"Bb"B,[DF]B,[K:F] z|
[V:1] A/B/|cc ff|F F/G/ Ac|c/d/B/G/ Ec| A2 F a/b/|
[V:2] z|"F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]| "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]|"Gm"C,[G,B,][G,B,][G,B,]|"F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]|
[V:1]c'c' f'f'|f f/g/ ac'| c'/d'/b/g/ ec'| f2 z:|:
[V:2] "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]| "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]|"Gm"C,[G,B,][G,B,][G,B,]|"F"F,[A,C]F,:|:
[V:1] C/D/|[CE][DF][EG][FA]|[G2B2] z c/d/| [ce][df][eg][fa] | [g2b2] z a/b/|
[V:2] z|C,/C/C,/C/ C,/C/C,/C/|"C7"C,/C/C,/C/ C, z| C,/C/C,/C/ C,/C/C,/C/|C,/C/C,/C/ C, z|
[V:1] c'c' f'f'|f f/g/ ac'| c'/d'/b/g/ ec'| f2 z:|
[V:2] "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]| "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]|"Gm"C,[G,B,][G,B,][G,B,]|"F"F,[A,C]F,:|