I wondered before the nieghbours start to complain..how do you play quietly?

Hi LDT,

You will not find this easy until the bellows are broken in, but use of the right thumb on the air valve, whilst playing, can control the flow of air, and, therefore, the volume.

It's a tricky technique to master, but my thumb always hovers on/near the air valve to ensure:

(1) The "correct" amount of air in the bellows.
(2) I can play louder/softer, when required.

As I play mainly dance music, I don't make as much use of dynamics as perhaps I would/should do if playing as a performance piece.

Regards,
Peter.

thank for the reply. So just to clarify does that mean holding the button down or tapping it occasionly or pushing it down halfway?

Generally the last two. Experience will tell you how to control the air-flow, and, to an extent, it depends on the type of music which you play.

For example, when I played for the Morris (loud volume generally needed), I would use the air-valve to ensure the "correct" amount of air in the bellows, but not to control volume (i.e. whilst my thumb was still on/near the valve, I was not using the valve to "lose" air whilst playing).

If I was playing a Slow Air, or similar, I would be trying to achieve a smoother style of playing, and a lower volume would be preferable, so would use the valve more to regulate air-flow.

Hope this makes some sense! Note; many Anglo players do not use this technique, but I find that it works well for me.

Regards,
Peter.

Is this not like driving with your foot half depressing the clutch? Not good for your car...

In this case it is no different then playing more than one button at a time.

Alan

My Hohner G/C has air lever always depressed. (by me)
But it has nothing to do with making reeds quieter. For quiet playing you just need very very good instrument, that's all.
Or you need to come up with "Concertina Silencer".
Luckily for you , there are such. They are called "Heavy Duty, Double Lined, Photo Processing, Dark Room bags". Available for $20 on Ebay, brand new. The only problem - the sleeves are too tight and cut circulation. But if you cut the rubber off and losen them, you'll be coasting. Another improvement to them is putting inside two rings for cross stitching. to hold the bag from collapsing.

Hmm, I recall again hearing Micheal O'Raghallaigh talking about use of air button. He reckoned use of air button was more or less inversely proportional to players skill - not his exact words but to that effect. I think he said a good anglo player using all the button options hardly needed to touch the air button at all and could balance the air in the bellows by choice of appropriate buttons.

But, can you not just use a bit less pressure on the bellows to play a bit more softly. I met someone a while back who played a Lachenal similar to mine but you wouldn't want to be in the same room - it was that loud it was almost unpleasant. They were really working the bellows hard and pumping it out.

Exactly.....volume is all about bellows pressure alone.

so are you saying to move slower or more gently for a quieter sound?

More gently - the speed at which you reverse and move the bellows is dictated by the tempo at which you play the tune, more or less. Play fast and you have to move the bellows more quickly when compared to the same tune and fingering at a slower speed. But you can use less pressure - be more gentle. Or more pressure, if you want to blast people out of it.. How well this works may depend to some extent on the instrument you have and whether it's traditionally reeded or equipped with accordion type reeds.

LDT........Don't attempt to play standing, if that is what you are doing. For any true subtlety of tone or volume you must have the control afforded by supporting one end (the right hand end?) of the instrument on your thigh or knee.

I was surprised at how loud my first concertina was, how hard it was to get any dynamics, it was loud and harsh.

My current boxes (both Lachenals) are far more dynamic, softer sounding but still quite loud. I think you need to consider how loud a trumpet is, or other wind instruments.

I have found that I can get away practising at full volume, so long as I do it within certain hours and on certain days. I have a partially completed practice booth (which I plan to get some pics for once I'm done), but I shelved the project seeing as I can play till 10:00PM on weekdays and 11:00 PM on weekends with no complaints.

Probably easier and closer to hand, how about putting your concertina in a sweat shirt and playing it with your hands up the sleeves.

If it's really heavy duty muting you're after, try a duffle coat

You're joking, but I'm serious. A sweatshirt, been fluffy and not dence, will not provide sound insolation.
The best would be dark room bag, made of thick leather, but there aren't such. Those dencely woven cotton, double lined bags are pretty good, and they are made as though intended for the purpose.

No, I was serious about the sweatshirt, it just seem to be a good idea. I'm not familiar with darkroom bags, so I accept you opinion on that.

I was joking about the duffle coat though

well I've not managed to play quiet...but I've achived 'quieter' lol!

Maybe this doesn't apply to concertina, but the excellent Newfoundland button accordion player I studied with last week uses his air button a lot, with the goal of keeping the bellows in a good position re: keeping arms and shoulders relaxed, etc. He particulalry worked on maanaging our air requirements so that we didn't end up with bellows hyper extended. Possibly button choice is less of an option with a 2 row accordion.

This was my response to noise complaints from my family while on vacation at a summer cottage recently. I hasten to point out that I'm playing my cheapo concertina, was just learning the tune, and have since worked out a smoother alternate fingering! Also, I had to swat the odd fly! The tune is "Rakes of Mallow".

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=R-GvbQB4bIo

That may be true for "single note" Irish-style playing. For playing chordally you'd need to find button options for all the notes in the chord and the melody. It's still a useful way of balancing the air, but you can't rely on it all the time. For harmonic playing I would say the opposite to Micheal - careful and well-judged use of the air button is the mark of a skilful player.

There are also different dynamics - I find I get more attack if I play on the push rather than on the pull. Perhaps that's just poor technique on my part, but I try to control my bellows so that I can be in a position to push or pull as best suits the music.

To return to the topic, playing quietly requires good bellows control to keep a steady flow of air through the reed at low pressure. It also requires good reeds, so you may be limited by the performance of your instrument. Using the air button allows you to move the bellows faster while reducing the pressure, but it's only part of the technique.

Anyway, it's a concertina, it's meant to be loud!

lol! I didn't know sheds like that really existed thought you only got them in cartoons


not after 10.30pm apparently

Hello guys,

after I´ve read all these posts I am still not getting the point, apparently.

Where is the problem playing a wind based instrument softly?

Christian

coz the football was on, next door was making a lot of noise till late....so I played my concertina as loud as possible to even things out. lol!

Christian,
I think the basic problem is that the volume of sound from a wind instrument is related to the pressure of the "wind". Even with my much-maligned Stagi, I can vary the volume by varying the pressure on the bellows, and I'm sure this is possible on a quality instrument, too.
The problem is, it takes a certain threshold pressure to start the reeds, so there's a lower limit to the volume produced. This is the difference between reeds and strings - strings can produce a mere whisper that is still at the same pitch as at mezzo-forte or forte. (Whereby stringed instruments, especially plucked strings, have the disadvantage that they have a lower peak volume, and have to be amplified in noisy surroundings.)

The question of dynamics on the concertina is perhaps a mental one. It's all about pressure, so when you think "loud or soft" you should think "pressure".
Concertina playing is not about moving your hands in and out. It's about applying pressure.
Pressure is measured in "force per unit of area" (pounds per square inch or metric equivalent). The area (square inches) of your bellows cross-section is constant, so you vary the pressure by varying the force (pounds) that you apply to it.

So, basically, all you have to think about is the force you're applying!

When you squeeze your box, the pressure inside rises above atmospheric pressure, and when you press a button, air escapes past the reed. This, of course, means that there is less air in the bellows, so to keep it at the same pressure, the bellows become shorter. So the hand applying the force has to move inwards.

I find it important NOT to think of moving my hand in, but to think of maintaining an even force. The hand will then automatically move inwards - slowly on a single note, faster on a full chord. I think of just "leaning" my hand against the end of the 'tina. When the end moves, my hand moves with it. It's a matter of feeling (as is often the case with mechanical contraptions). In this case, feel the force you're applying, don't feel the movement.

The above applies by analogy on the draw. Think of the force of your hand against the straps.

If you play "heavy-handedly", you will be louder; if you play "gently", you will be softer. The amount of bellows movement just happens. Don't think about it!

Cheers,
John

I used two sweatshirts wrapped around my EC to deaden the sound one time, and it worked quite well, as a matter of fact. Note though, that I had two and both were doubled a few times, else it probably wouldn't have softened the sound much at all. I used it one night at my grandparents when I had a song stuck in my head and HAD to play, just for a little bit and didn't want it to be too loud, after all, it was rather late at night, I was downstairs, the screens were open and I didn't need the neighbors complaining.

A few days later I wanted to play my fiddle a bit before going somewhere, and I had to be as quiet as possible, Not having a mute at my disposal I took my fiddle and a pair of socks (ankle length, clean) into the furnace room with me......resulting in slightly less bowing room, an instrument that suddenly sounded like a horribly cheap piece of junk (it's not) and worn out arms. But I didn't make too much noise!!!

...and just where did you stuff the socks, if I may ask?

I once had to play the violin very quietly off stage at a theatre production. I was "Einstein" in Dürrenmatt's "The Physicists", and in the final scene I had to juggle with violin, bow and a revolver

Anyway, not possessing a mute, I used wooden clothes pegs. One, two or three, depending on the degree of quietness required, clipped to the bridge in the gaps between the strings.

The drawback with the free reeds is that the sound can't be muted at the source - you can only try to contain the sound once it's got out of the concertina.

Cheers,
John

The sound holes, of course! It resulted in a rather stuffed up sound (gee, I wonder why?!), but it worked quite well.

The clothespin idea sounds good too, unfortunately I didn't have access to any of them (that I knew of, anyway).
A violin, bow and revolver, eh? What a combination!
"Why do people shudder when someone carrying a viola case walk into the room?" "Because they're afraid he has a viola and will use it!" (Profound apologies to viola players, I like that instrument, really!)

My roomate is actually learning how to play right now, and the sound of the concertina isn't very pleasing when he plays =/.
Find an empty room to practice or when no one is home. practice practice practice, don't let whiny neighbors stop you!

One of my daughters is at college studying art and is now on a photography project. She has been doing her own developing and printing so I asked if I could borrow her darkroom bag for a muffler for the concertina. Within minutes of starting to play my hands were sweating, so much so that I could no longer hold on to the instrument. I conclude that a darkroom bag is not a good way to play quietly.


Edited for spelling

One of my neighbours heard my playing and apparently when he was younger he played the concertina. Its a small world it seems. lol!