Could someone help me identify the model of this Lachenal? It's on sale here, but it only says it's a Lachenal & Son. The seller does not know anything else about it. I've been searching for pictures on the Internet to try and identify it .. not 100% sure yet

That is a rosewood-ended English. You'll need to know whether it has steel or brass reeds.

Not the bottom of the range, but maybe only a couple of steps above it.

You'll find old catalogues here


If it is, it's unique.

But I expect they mean Lachenal & Co.

Could have been the original lyrics for a Cat Stevens song??? Scans well!

Any one game to write a parody?

It already has the line about "files in your head".

In fact, it doesn't really need re-writing....It's obviously all about a concertina maker.

MC

So this is a cheapy? I bought it anyway since it appears to be in such a good condition, bellows takes long to expand if I perform that gravity test, and all the notes/buttons work perfectly.

Thanks Paul .. I'll check now that I've bought it, as soon as I have an opportunity to open it up. Does it make a big different in quality or price?

I bought the concertina this afternoon, and now had a chance to look at it. I took it apart to see the reeds .. I would imagine its steel reeds as there is a white metal strip on top of what appears to be a yellow metal strip .. and I assume the white metal strip is the reed .. or at least the part which vibrates? Below more pictures .. perhaps someone could advise me.

If you open it up, and look through the hole in the middle between the reeds, then you can see some writing on the insides of opposing ends, which says:

LONDON , 8 Lit, James 5:. Bedford Row
48 keys
Lachenal & Co
Small Notes Right Hand Side

The only firms for which any kind of (incomplete) ledgers are known to still exist are Wheatstone's and Crabb's, but only the Wheatstone ledgers are available online. So the best I can offer you would be an estimated date of around 1893-4 for #35500.

Thanks Stephen .. wow, thats old, something like 114 years then? I'm amazed it is in such a good condition then.

Am I correct that these appear to be steel reeds?

With brass reeds it would be No. 4 (for £5.00) on this contemporary price list, but with steel reeds it was No. 7 (for £8.00).


About half-way through Lachenal's production in fact.


It's only a "spring chicken" compared with some much older ones that I've seen in even better condition.


Yes.

Very informative and helpful thanks Stephen.

What are the white strips next to the reeds for? Looks like its a cotton patch or something to dempen / muffle sound?

Hello,

the white strips are called valves and they shut a hole which has a second reed on the other side of the pan.

Christian

They're made of leather and are there to stop air pressure escaping via the second reed in the chamber. However, the highest reeds work better without them, so don't worry about the lack of them there.

Well done. Although not a vintage instrument still a very good price for a decent steel reeded rosewood Lachenal in that condition.
I am thinking of flying to SA to do some purchasing myself. Or do you take orders?

.

1894 - not vintage?

I wanted to say that it is not in the top range of EC models.
I don't know why I used the word vintage (must have seen it used somewhere in these forums...?).
But was 1894 a vintage year for concertina's?

I did wonder if that might be what you meant.


I think most people would use it to describe the period of about 60 years during which the majority of the best playing instruments were made, from about 1880 up until the beginning of World War 2.


You bet!

apparently (i just looked it up) vintage refers to harvesting the grapes and making one in the same year. so vintage, by relation, is the year that the wine was made. if i wine is a combination of vintages (made in more than one year, meaning combinations of distillations from different years), it is not vintage. so, i doubt that the wood was harvested, the steel forged, and the animal slaughtered to make the buttons all in the same year, so it is probably not vintage.

but to go by the common definition of the word--old--yes, i would say that concertina is vintage. but, to mix in some of the "correct" meaning (i'm not very much into correct meanings), the question is whether or not the concertina is a good vintage (meaning "good year" for concertinas), is beyond my internet-search derivative authority.

---------------

and congrats on the concertina! it is good to know that people are still getting good concertinas for less than a 100 bucks--i thought those days were long over with.

Interesting reading the comments around vintage or not. When I discovered the concertina dates from around 1894 I was very impressed simply because I was playing on an instrument 114 years old .. which is amazing for me, especially for the condition it is in. It's good to know it came from a great period.

On your $100 comment David, I think there may be some more hidden jewels with old Salvation Army players or their families, which is where I got this one. Perhaps one should find some sort of listings of Salvation Army volunteers and start tracking them down

The seller of this Lachanel also had a very old Wheatstone of some sort which he already sold by the time I got to him .. unfortunately.

In fact even the "age or year of a particular wine" definition is a later (18th century) one, originally (in the 14th century) the original Old French word "vendage" meant the "yield from a vineyard". Whilst most countries today allow a vintage wine to include a portion that is not from the year on the label - in Europe and the US it must have an 85% same-year content, though in Chile and South Africa it's only 75%.

And did you ever see a concertina in a bottle?


Definitions of the word vary, but usually include an element of high quality in construction, materials and workmanship, not just of age - in fact it is suggestive of a "golden-age". We did have a bit of a dicussion of the subject before: What About Vintage, Has the word been devaluated.

awesome discussion. thank you for sharing. i was aware of the percentages--interestingly enough, it could be applicable to concertinas as well. i wonder how many new parts you could put into a concertina before it was considered no longer vintage?

That is quite a good point. I was wondering recently if the Lachanel English I've got would devalue if I were to replace the bellows with new ones, made up by someone locally. The same would go for any other aparts I expect, which parts which if replaced by generic ones would devalue the concertina?

A bit like the original axe that my great grandfather used - it's had three new handles and two new blades fitted since he used it - but it's original

It would be interesting to know how many original parts a concertina must have to be considered vintage, but also WHAT parts.

Surely new handstraps wouldn't nullify the vintage status. The concertina would still sound the same, and the action would have the same feel.
But what about a new bellows? Is this only a repair, or is it a rebuild?
What about a completely new set of reeds?
Or what about Wakker's "Phoenix" series, where vintage reeds from irreparable, old concertinas are built into a new instrument?

Where does repair end and rebuilding start? Are there a couple of parts that can be considered the "core" of a concertina, and define its age?

And what about old Salvation Army anglos that were built in Ab/Eb and later tuned to G/D? Or Englishes that have been changed from old concert pitch to A=440? Is their sound still "vintage"?

In short: Why is "vintage" desirable? What essential parts of a concertina either (1) improve with age or (2) can no longer be manufactured the way they used to be?

Cheers,
John

You wouldn't get far in a vintage car using the same oil as was put in the day it was built!
Tyres? Brake pads? Filters?
And compliance with current road laws?

If you want to start a museum, fair enough; keep it original (and probably unplayable). Museums are full of them.

But if you want a playing instrument, then use the best available new parts and rebuilding techniques to enable you, the owner, to produce the music you want, which, in my opinion, is the object of owning a concertina.

As for "devaluing" a concertina by restoring it, I assume you mean in a financial sense. Sure, some people will pay top dollar for "original" condition, be they collectors or players who want to have their new concertina set up by their chosen restorer.

However, I think most players, or would-be players, would prefer to buy a concertina that is already playable straight out of the box and would consequently pay more for such an instrument.

If the concertina is for your own playing use, it has no financial value for as long as you keep it; it is only when selling it that it acquires a financial value.

At least, that's my opinion....

MC

This is perilously close to off-topic and I suppose a lot of people will be familiar with the terms veteran and vintage as applied to cars (about which there is a huge debate on authenticity and provenance of parts - the significant pars of a single Bugatti being used as provenance for up to 3 "genuine" rebuilt cars all of which claim to be the original)

But I digress. Here from the Sunbeam Talbot Darracq Register website (which I commend to you all:

Veteran = made before 1904
Edwardian = made between 1905 - 1918
Vintage = 1919 - 1930 (after which the VSCC considered cars declined in quality of construction!)
Post Vintage Thoroughbred = 1931 - 1940 provided they meet certain quality standards
Classic = usually applied to quality cars post 1945.

Now let's start debating what "quality" means and how we might apply similar terms to the various eras of Wheatstone, C Jeffries, Jeffries Bros etc.

But please keep me out of said debate - I'm off to the pub to play music

Alex