I have a 48 button Lachenal & Co concertina which appears to be in excellent condition and also appears to be a treble and is an English. Number 41402
What I need is some advice on what it is worth, there appears to be such a wide range of prices and opinions as to the value of these instruments so I need help.
I am not a concertina person!
With ebay in Australia you cannot sell with a hidden reserve price, ie:- it is not really an auction, but it must be advertised at a price, which is fine if you can define what a fair price is. Would appreciate your comments

Hi there.

Has anyone given you any information about the concertina yet? I've been looking for the right instrument to start on for 4 or 5 months now, and I've watched the price of everything go insane during that time! I guess a bunch of people must be inflicted with English Concertina fever at the same time...

Anyway, ballpark figures for how much you'd like...?

Thank you for the reply, there has been only one other response
It would appear that the value is in the region of 450/500 pounds
If I can get somewhere in that region I would be content but I'm open to comments or offers
If there is anything I can do to assist you come to a decision just let me know

On the contrary, it is really an auction imho. Put it on for a dollar and let the market decide. That's what an auction should be.

I hate to defend eBay Australia after some of their recent stunts, but I think they have got this one right. Unfortunately, the downside is that there is now a lower clearance rate because sellers are placing unrealistic starting prices.

What a concertina, or anything else, is worth is the price some one is prepared to pay.

And in the international market, that can change drastically with exchange rate fluctuations. The Australian dollar is at a high level against the US$ and the pound compared with a year or so ago, so it is quite likely that a concertina purchased from, say, the US a year ago in Australian dollars would now realise a much smaller return in Australian dollars if sold overseas today.

Just getting back to your particular concertina, it would probably assist prospective buyers if you can advise whether the reeds are of steel or brass.

Good luck with finding a new home for your Lachenal.

MC

An auction is a "show" and to have a successful auction you need to be in control of all aspects of that show, with ebay you are not in control of anything, you have no ability to control the number of people who are aware of the item being auctioned, you have no ability to know who is going to participate in the auction
and if you cancel the auction at the last minute it is not fair on the ones who do attend. Setting a "starting" price turns it into some sort of "tender" process

An ability to set a sensible reserve price is essential

The reeds are brass with a few steel replacements

What is so difficult about telling people the minimum figure you'll accept? Do you really thing that by starting low with a hidden reserve you'll get people bidding further than they would otherwise?

I'm unsympathetic because I used Ebay a lot in the past for some high value stuff (classic motorbike bits particularly) and never used reserves, felt it was better to show people right from the start the minimum they would have to pay. I don't think I lost out by doing this.

Personally, reserves turn me away. If it's something I'd buy 'if the price was right', a reserve will have me assuming the seller is greedy and leaving it. (I take the same view on adverts with no quoted price. I assume I'm dealing with a 'smart alec'.) If you can see the opening price straight away you know immediately if it's worth taking further.

Then it's not really worth much to anyone and the "valuation" you've been given is ludicrous - would the "valuer" give you anything like that much for it?

Auction it with a low starting price and take what you can get, then it's fair to everybody.

Sorry.

quote
Personally, reserves turn me away. If it's something I'd buy 'if the price was right', a reserve will have me assuming the seller is greedy and leaving it. (I take the same view on adverts with no quoted price. I assume I'm dealing with a 'smart alec'.) If you can see the opening price straight away you know immediately if it's worth taking further.
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The only difference between an auction with a reserve and an "un-reserved" auction is that in the case of the reserve the highest bidder does not necessarily get the object, but the seller now knows what the market thinks the object is worth and has the option of dropping to accept what has been the highest price or putting it back under the stairs to gather dust. As to being greedy how can you be greedy when an object is available for sale to the highest bidder
Also if you look at my original post I was asking for advice, because with concertinas as with many other items NO-ONE can place an accurate, with 100% certainty figure on what it is actually worth, the most we can hope for, is that a collection of knowledgeable people can come to a concensus

I have followed most of the posts on this forum and as with any forum there are those who obviously have a lot of knowledge and those who have none so I am still back to my original question what is a fair price and why?
Because even with a "starting or minimum price I still need to know what it is and by reading this forum there are a lot of people who have the same queries so maybe the forum shoud get a group of "qualified" people to answer these question with some authority and sense

Kingpins,
Sometimes you get what you pay for.

There are several highly qualified repairers/makers in Australia who, for a modest fee, will give you a "professional" evaluation of your instrument's condition and value. Malcolm Clapp and Richard Evans immediately leap to mind.

Otherwise, you will need to sift the "freely"offered opinions of this forum. Fairly amazing bunch of people here, and very helpful. But as with any gathering of minds, opinions, and their compatibility with one's own, will differ.

Greg

[quote maybe the forum shoud get a group of "qualified" people to answer these question with some authority and sense
[/quote]
which then begs the question - how much are you going to pay them for that valuation
chris

Kingpins,

You seem to have missed the whole point of this forum, which is for concertina enthusiasts to communicate with oneanother about subjects of common interest, especially the playing, making/repairing and history of our favourite instrument.

It does not purport to offer free valuations for eBayers, and no-one has the right to demand that of us, nor to tell us how it should be run. Nevertheless, your question has been answered with some authority and sense by "qualified" people, though it seems you would prefer to believe an outrageously high valuation from your anonymous informant. So be it!

Please click here for Complaints Department

Well said Stephen.

Kingpins,
As you say yourself, "there are those who obviously have a lot of knowledge and those who have none." If I want to know something, I listen to the people who obviously have the knowledge I'm looking for.

But I do listen to the others as well. There's something comforting about realising that I'm not the only one who's poking around in the dark.

Speaking of "authority and sense": In most cases, by exercising a bit of sense, you'll recognise authority when you see it.

On the subject of pricing policies in auctions, it stands to reason that differnt sellers have different attitudes to the lots they're selling. If I have some ornament lying around that I have no use for and no interest in, I'll put it in at 1 Euro and see how much I get for it. Might be valuable to a collector of such things, might not. The market decides. And I'm rid of it.

My present situation is totally different. I really want a Crane duet. For that I need money. I have a playable Bandoneon that gets played so seldom that I wouldn't really miss it if it were gone - especially if I had a Crane. But there's no dealer anywhere near me who could do a (part) exchange, so I'm thinking of selling the Bandoneon on ebay. Obviously, I would only part with the Bandoneon if it contributed significantly to my being able to afford a Crane. If it only fetched a pittance, I'd rather keep it (and, not being able to afford a Crane, I would continue to enjoy playing it occasionally) .

To my mind, this is what a reserve price is all about. If my reserve price were not met, at least I would know what the market value of my Bandoneon is, and could rethink the whole thing. A slightly lower reserve might do the trick, or I might decide that buyers' interest is so slight that it's not worth selling it.
If I just put the starting price at the minimum I hope to get, and nobody bids, I've no idea how far I was from a realistic price estimate.
So, for me in this situation, a reserve price is the ideal mechanism.

Cheers,
John

A fair price is what you can get for the concertina. If you show it to just one or two potential buyers you might get just low-ball offers -- if you put it on eBay you'll get a true reflection of the market, for better or worse. Stephen, who's probably the most knowledgable person here and is one of the most knowledgable in the world about concertinas, told you that as vintage English-built concertinas go this one is not very desirable because of the brass reeds. But what you can actually get for it will depend on who's looking for one at the time you're selling and what they're willing to pay, and that it's in Australia and that you're "not a concertina person" might have an effect on what you can get for it too.

As an illustration of what I was saying, there's a Lachenal Anglo just started on eBay.co.uk at £40.00 with no reserve, despite the fact that the same seller got £1,420.00 for the last similar one he sold, which attracted 29 bids. He has confidence in the international market setting a fair price.

Mind you, he is selling much more desirable concertinas...

Having recently been down this track with my concertina I can say that I would have liked a reserve price. I went into the sale with an idea of what I thought it was worth based on prior sales.

If had the chance to put a reserve on it I would have put it on for a lower price, which obviously would have generated more interest and allowed me to make a decision based on what the market at the time would offer. As Malcolm said, there have been major changes in the global economy of late and the likes of the Aust. dollar has increased quite a bit against the other major currencies. As it was, I ended up dealing outside ebay after the auction and accepting a price that was lower. Had I been able to put a reserved there may have been others willing to pay the same or even a little more.

Maybe if ebay thought about it a bit, they may realise that there is a good chance that sales will go ahead outside of their auction site if there is no reserve as it still bring buyers and sellers together and gives them the opportunitty to deal after the auction as happened in my case.

Anyway, I would prefer the ability to put a reserve on some of these concertinas as they are worth a lot of money and you are contracted to go ahead with the sale at the end of the auction no matter what the final price is.

With the experience that I have had, I can't see myself using ebay again as a seller though.

Scott

Have you posted this on ebay yet? I'm following the conversation flow...

Here's a far more deserving ebony-ended LACHENAL LONDON CONCERTINA STEEL REEDS 48 BUTTONS that just sold for only £500:

Oh, I´d love tog get some information about the picture attached inside the box...

Stephen,

Not that it matters really, but judging by the photo with the extended bellows, doesn't that look more like dark or stained Rosewood, than Ebony?

Cheers
Dick