Hi

I am selling a concertina on behalf of my mother and was hoping I could
get some advice from the people on this forum as to how much I should be
looking to getting and what the best method for selling it is (I am based in the UK.)

The concertina belonged to my grandfather and is in good working order,
although the handle on the case is broken at the top. It has C.Jeffries
stamped on one end but the camera I borrowed to take the photos kept
insisting on using it's flash whenever I tried to capture this. On one
end it has 18 buttons(?) in a group plus one a little farther up, and on
the other end it has 19 + 1 buttons.

Any advice gratefully received.

Hi There

Your concertina is a very strongly appreciated type of concertina. The keys it is in and the condition are factors perhaps in what it would be worth to someone leaning in the direction of making an offer to you. You could offer it for sale here on this website or sell it on Ebay. Those venues seem to be where many are sold. I could be wrong but I think it might be worth these days between 4,500. and 5,250. GBP.

This is just one guess.

Richard

wishing it was mine is about all the help i chould be. i chould swap a good pack of beagle hounds. good luck on selling it, which im sure you want have a problem. jim

I don't see how richard, or anyone, could offer an evaluation of a concertina from pictures. Are the bellows intact? Leaky? You can see that the leather on the frame ends has deteriorated. How about the reeds? Are they all there? Are they rusted or corroded beyond repair? What is the tuning? Has it been altered? Have the reeds been ruined by clumsy retuning? Is it even really a Jeffries?
The man's expectations have been raised, perhaps unfairly. The sale to a knowledgeable dealer or player has possibly been interfered with. I know that a genuine urge to help motivated the response to the original question. But it would have been better to stop after advising the owner that the concertina might be a sought after kind. It would have been kinder to direct the owner of the concertina to reputable dealers who would have examined the instrument more closely and offered an evaluation based on that examination. A shoot-from-the-hip high evaluation of this sort, even given a wide range of estimation, doesn't really help anybody.

Although I do agree with what most of what you've said, there has been plenty of evidence recently that buyers are willing to pay the sort of prices quoted even for un-restored Jeffries anglos. Bonkers, maybe, but that's the state the market appears to have reached.

I never said it wasn't worth it. Or maybe even worth more. But here's one possible scenario.
The guy takes the concertina, armed with the "estimate" he received here, to a dealer we all respect.
This dealer knows as much about concertinas as anybody on this forum.
He looks at the concertina and sees that the Jeffries imprint isn't really a Jeffries stamp but a poor copy.
The reeds are so shot from clumsy retuning that they have to be scrapped. The bellows is nearly worthless.
Sorry, he says, your concertina is really only worth about £500, and that's a generous offer.
The guy with the concertina leaves, convinced that the dealer is a liar and a cheat.
He then publicizes his new information by claiming that a concertina dealer tried to rip him off.
The guy lost out a fair offer and a sale. The dealer suffers a slight loss to his reputation
and doesn't get a concertina that might have been of some use to him.
Both parties are disappointed.
That's why nobody should give a specific - or even a range of value - estimate based on a few net photos.
It doesn't help anybody.

I agree with Cocusflute that stating a value based on just a picture alone may unnecessarily raise a seller's expectations and hopes, however, prender did state, "Any advice gratefully received."

The answers to cocusflute's more probing questions would certainly get one closer to a proper valuation.

After reading Scott Fineran's FS post, I am certain that if I had 5,250 pounds to spend, I would borrow an additional 250 and buy Scott's restored 38b Jeffries and have an instrument that I could play right from the shipping box rather than have to sort through what would have to be done to this one once I received it.

No matter how beautiful a player this Jeffries will turn out to be when properly restored, I am fairly certain that the final cost will be way beyond the means and aspirations of most of the c.net members, especially mine.

Scott's looking for 5,500 in Australian dollars. I've just done a quick conversion and that equates to about 2,670 in pounds sterling. Sounds like a bargain!

No, he isn't at all - why can't I read properly?? That WOULD be a bargain!

....................he's looking for £5500 in Oz dollars = Aus $ 11,190
Robin

That is the price for a brand new Steve Dickenson Wheatstone 40 button anglo (I am on the list)! I'd go for the new Wheatstone.

It looks like we are headed for new prices of 6000 GBP and upwards for Jeffries concertinas.

That is the price for a brand new Steve Dickenson Wheatstone 40 button anglo (I am on the list)! I'd go for the new Wheatstone.

It looks like we are headed for new prices of 6000 GBP and upwards for Jeffries concertinas.

I appreciate your argument, Cocus, but are you not being somewhat pendantic. I mean the dealer is far more likely to say "sorry old chap .. this is/is not a genuine Jeffries .. but it has various 'xyz' problems. If it were in good condition, I could offer £x000 but as it is, it will cost £y00 to fix up and therefore I can only offer you £z00." If the seller isn't happy with that, he can go for another valuation. Your scenario is most unlikely.
I'm certainly no expert but the pictures above, appear at face value to show an instrument that has been looked after. Wasn't there some unrestored Jeffries sold for c.$10,000 there in the USA a few days ago.

Whilst I appreciate and understand Cocusflute's concerns, Richard will have based his remarks on the words in the original post, as well as the pictures, and there it says "The concertina belonged to my grandfather and is in good working order, although the handle on the case is broken at the top. " [emphasis mine]. If, upon actual physical inspection this appeared not to be the case then the possible price would have to be reduced accordingly.
Samantha

To my way of thinking, this person has not yet established any credibility as an authority on stating that the concertina is in "good working order" based on "it belonged to my grandfather." pender has only been a member since Feb. of 2008 and has had no posts until now. As far as I am concerned it is no different than looking at a concertina on ebay in which the seller has not earned any feedback. I would be and am leery of his representations concerning the condition of the instrument. I see some leather problems and the end bolts appear to be tightened down a bit to intensely. Other than that I have now way of knowing anything of importance other than someone's unprofessional opinion of its working order. I have no way of knowing if this is legit and would have every right to know a lot more about the instrument from a reputable dealer and the seller. I am not trying to defame pender but am reserving my right to be more cautious about the value and authenticity of this instrument and offer to sell.

I still contend that buying Scott Fineran's Jeffries would be a more prudent purchase compared to this one given the small difference in price but large difference in the unknown quality of this compared to Scott's. I won' be buying either as I refuse to think that I would do either justice with my meager ability as a yank to properly pay, play or restore a traditional Irish instrument with such historical significance.

Er, uh, ...perhaps an english made instrument of historical significance currently enjoying immense popularity in Ireland?

I think Richard was letting Prender know that in certain venues (eBay) unrestored Jeffries in the proper key can sell for as much as $8000-$10,000.

I believe David and Steve are saying that more information is needed (pictures of the reeds, on site inspection, expert's opinion) before they or some knowledgable concertina.net buyer would pay anywhere close to that figure.

Could everybody be "correct" in this case?

Greg

Seems he gave warnings

God yes, I hope so Greg. How we do go on in the buy and sell forum about everything but the actual buying and selling. Maybe we should all change our channels to the other discussion groups and leave this venue/arena to the sellers and buyers for which it was intended.

And when will this Wheatstone 40 button Anglo be delivered? Before or after pigs have learned to soar like eagles?

Hi. just wondering if you have sold you're concertina? How much are you looking for it? can you email me on 0872800980@vodafone.ie Thanks very much.
Sean O Farrell

here is another possible wrinkle to add to cocusflute's liste of potential scenarios:

a qualified technician opens it up and over more than a century of repairs, 2/3 to 4/5 of the original reeds have been replaced with lachenal or lachenal-quality reeds.

this happened to me as i was on the verge of purchasing a jeffries several years ago. anyone who lays out this kind of money for a vintage concertina without having it professionally vetted, in writing, by one of the handful of people who are qualified to do so, is an idiot.

and the only useful input to be offered the original poster is, take the instrument to one of the handful of people who are qualified to evaluate it, and proceed from there.

Wow,

Firstly, thanks to all the guys who have pm'd with offers and advice. I have been extremely busy at work recently and so have not really had the chance to deal with this. I work at a university and I have asked a friend in the music department to ask around to see if there is anyone who can determine what key it's in as that seems to be quite an issue. Is it as easy as someone who plays the piano being able to say 'Oh that's in....' or do they need special concertina knowledge?

As for issues with the quality - I did say it was in good working order but that is obviously to my untrained ear. I'm no mechanic but I can tell when a car's running well and when it's not. A poor analogy I know, but I'm basically saying that there is no obvious problem when the concertina is expanded/contracted and the buttons pressed - to me it sounds like a good instrument played badly.

A list of people in the uk who could evaluate it would be appreciated - I am based in Leeds. Like I said this is a sale on behalf of my mother; I want the best price for her, and ebay seems to be the consensus, but neither of us wants to sell someone a dud even if it is done in good faith.

Once again, thanks for the interest and advice and I will keep you updated.

On the attached photo, I've highlighted the buttons (on the right hand) which will give the best indication, with the bellows being compressed.

Regards,
Peter.

Was it an instrument that had come from one of the Liverpool concertina bands by any chance?

That would be common enough with one of theirs, but unusual otherwise.

Hi,
I agree with cocusflute. In addition, there is a danger here of seriously inflating the price above and beyond its true worth. Valuations cannot be made on "unseen" objects and neither can they be made based upon a few photographs. I realise of course that some forum members are trying to help but sometimes one can get carried away by ones own over enthusiasm with dire consequences.

One could end up with a scenario (unlikely but possible) whereas a "potential" concertina player with more money than sense is trawling through this forum looking to buy his/her first concertina. Might even have made a few tentative enquires and is aware that certian makes are considered poor and others are worth their weight in gold. Sees a Jeffries and thinks "wow, I've heard about them; I'll jump in quickly ...". Result? Either one very lucky beginner or one who is very p..... off when someone points out that the reeds aren't original; not a Jeffries etcetera etcetera.

It is also unfair on the seller. His expectations have now been raised probably far in excess of what he anticipated. He may be genuine and I don't wish to be disrespectful to him but it is a fact of life that people of shall we say "the shady side of life" join forums such as this waiting to pounce upon the gullible and unsuspecting.

It would have been kinder and more sensible to have announced to the owner of this Jeffries that he "may" have in his possession an instrument that is very much sought after and commanding high prices based upon condition etcetera. He could then have been pointed in the general direction of Chris Algar to name but one and advised to have the instrument assessed and valued. At least that way expectations based upon over enthusiasm are less likely to result in a fall.
Mike Delta.

I'll weigh in here I guess as I have put mine up for sale and quoted a price that seems to have added to this debate.

I put the price on mine based on the sale of the last jeffries that I saw go through on ebay. It ws an unrestored Bb/F Jeffries and it sold for about 5050 pounds. Based on this and what others have told me, a C/G that has been restored should be worth a bit more than this, so I put the price I have quoted based on this.

Having said that, I was in two minds on how to sell it. I put it one here with the idea that I could donate some money back to the site and also pay less fees on the sale. Plus if I use ebay, it seems that I must use paypal and the fees continue to mount up. As this is not an auction site I also figured that I should put a decent price on it as can'timagine people offering me more if I put a low price on it.

I have seen a concertina identicle to the one I have sell for about $10,000 Aus a few years back and didn't play a note and had bits rattling around inside it everwhere (mind you the exchange rate ws a lot different then). I have been watching the concerttinas that have sold on ebay for some time now and they have nearly all been bought by the same person (BUSMICK). Maybe he is responsible for some of the prices being paid/asked. makes me wonder what is doing with them all.


Scott

hi stephen
could you expand on this statement re the liverpool marching bands.
thanks
cplayer

Hi Guys,

I'm really very sorry for leaving this for so long but I've been working 14 hour days for the past few weeks and so this took a back seat.

I was lucky enough to get some advice and an evaluation from Mark Davies, who I think many of you know. He wrote out a description of the instrument, which is pretty much word for word the description I am going to put on ebay:

Jeffries 39 Key Anglo Concertina

C/G - Modern Pitch (442).

Original Six Fold Bellows, Metal Ends and Buttons.

Original Untouched Condition with Original Six-Sided Leather Case.

39 Buttons - C Drone on Left Hand.

Bellows are Airtight

Small Leather Patch on Bottom of Endframe.

Buyer to Arrange and Fund Delivery - Will Ship internationally.



The last part about the buyer arranging shipping is a bit of a quandry for me as I would imagine any buyer would want to use a trusted method of delivery and I'm not sure Royal Mail (or whatever they're calling themselves) would measure up.

Mark, very generously, agreed to field any questions about the instrument through me, although I'm sure that those of you who know him can contact him directly. The only trouble is that I'm having a little difficulty contacting him myself at the moment as I suspect he is on holiday. As soon as I know that he will be available to answer any technical questions I will put the listing on ebay.

Again, thanks for all the interest and your patience.

He's in Ireland at the moment (or at least, he was when I saw him a couple of days ago).

Sorry to be so slow in replying, but I've only just noticed the question.

My experience of instruments from the Liverpool bands would seem to suggest that they were not at all concerned about the "integrity" or "originality" of their instruments and that, lacking any competent tuner/repairer, they were quite likely to change a reed that was out of tune, or malfunctioning, for a reed that was working/in tune from another concertina. So you might find some Lachenal (etc.) reeds in a Jeffries, even brass ones!

Their instruments are typically in fairly "butchered" condition.