Is it still possible to access the old discussion forums for reference.? As far as i could tell, all links lead to the new forums.

- John Wild

We've covered this before but it bears repeating: the old forum was custom-built by Paul S. The new forum is a commercial product. They are not compatible. Paul has the old files archived and says someday he may get around to writing the code to convert them to be a read only forum here. That will be a big job, and Paul has two half-time jobs now and is going to night school as well, so it will be awhile. If there is some important historical or other item that needs digging up you could always write him about it (but I don't want to encourage numerous inquiries to look through the files on a casual basis). Cheers,

Ken

John,

The old C.net pages can be accessed on http://www.waybackmachine.org/, including the old discussion forums, though only some of the old posts can be read.

That's the second time in a few days that "waybackmachine.org" has been mentioned. I wonder that they aren't in trouble over copyright issues... if not for reproducing Concertina.net without permission, then at least for reproducing pages that others have deleted specifically because of copyright issues. Or have they developed some way to identify and exclude such pages?

It looks like they have themselves covered with their exclusion policy. Here are exceprts from archive.org's Terms & Privacy statement and FAQ:

"While we collect publicly available Internet documents, sometimes authors and publishers express a desire for their documents not to be included in the Collections (by tagging a file for robot exclusion or by contacting us or the original crawler group). If the author or publisher of some part of the Archive does not want his or her work in our Collections, then we may remove that portion of the Collections without notice."

What is the Wayback Machine's Copyright Policy?

The Internet Archive respects the intellectual property rights and other proprietary rights of others. The Internet Archive may, in appropriate circumstances and at its discretion, remove certain content or disable access to content that appears to infringe the copyright or other intellectual property rights of others. If you believe that your copyright has been violated by material available through the Internet Archive, please provide the Internet Archive Copyright Agent with the following information:

* Identification of the copyrighted work that you claim has been infringed;
* An exact description of where the material about which you complain is located within the Internet Archive collections;
* Your address, telephone number, and email address;
* A statement by you that you have a good-faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law;
* A statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that the above information in your notice is accurate and that you are the owner of the copyright interest involved or are authorized to act on behalf of that owner;
* Your electronic or physical signature.

Internet Archive uses the exclusion policy intended for use by both academic and non-academic digital repositories and archivists. See our full exclusion policy.

How can I remove my site's pages from the Wayback Machine?

The Internet Archive is not interested in preserving or offering access to Web sites or other Internet documents of persons who do not want their materials in the collection. By placing a simple robots.txt file on your Web server, you can exclude your site from being crawled as well as exclude any historical pages from the Wayback Machine.

Internet Archive uses the exclusion policy intended for use by both academic and non-academic digital repositories and archivists. See our exclusion policy.

Not sure about the courts, but if I were suing them, I don't think I would consider that "covered". Here's a cynical rereading of what you quoted:
... If you go to a great deal of trouble to identify documents that we don't have the right to publish and prove that you have the right to restrict such publication, we might agree with you and remove the items from our archives/distribution. In any case, we imply that we are not liable unless and until we refuse to do so, and that you must therefore handle the matter through us, not by going to the polilce or courts.

The text quoted implies that there is a larger document, which may or may not describe use of procedures to avoid unauthorized distribution in the first place.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's a great service. But with it should come certain responsibilities and protections, and if they were concerned about that, I would expect them to trumpet it to the world. I would feel much more comfortable if they said that they only include data, the originators of which have asked or authorized them to include.

If I have personal web pages that I want to make no longer available, should I have to contact them to make sure that they're really deleted? How many other services like that are there? How do I find out, and how do I contact them? In fact, until recently, I didn't know they existed.


How many authors of web pages know that these things even exist? When you save a web page in your web editor or upload it to your server, are you automatically prompted whether you want it excluded from such archiving? Is exclusion the default?

I don't expect or want folks to answer/debate those questions here. But I do want you all to think about these concepts, and about whether you should do something about them. I don't just mean things like legislation and policing. E.g., when you're posting, do you think about who outside of C.net might read your post and what use they might make of it? Did you make off hand mention of where in your house you store your "preciousss"? Or maybe 30 years from now you'll be running for president, and "Concertina Players for Truth" will dig up an old C.net post to embarrass you?

I'm now wondering what creations of mine may be lurking, unbeknownst to me, on waybackmachine.com. What about you?

Paul or Ken,

I'd like to rebuild these wayback pages into a single object for the ICA archive, and I think I might have a fairly easy way to do it. I'm not intending to put it on the ICA site, just into the archive (like I did for the old Horniman site). Any objections?

best wishes ..wes

I have a personal interest here, and I shall check the Wayback Machine to see if it can help. Most of what I wrote on my condition and state of mind directly after my stroke I wrote for the old forum, and I would very much like to recover those postings. Thanks for the suggestion.

Chris

It was just something someone said recently that remonded me of a discussion thread on the old forums and I had wondered if it was still possible to read them via the concertina.net home page menu, even though they would not accept new postings. I will have a look at the link provided for waybackmachine.

If Wes is willing and has the time it would be great if his offer was accepted

Thanks & best wishes,

John

This is Paul's bailiwick, as he is owner of this site. You should probably email him about it.



Other services? Try credit unions in the U.S. And the computerized marketing people. If you fellow countrymen of mine use those supermarket discount cards, be assured they carefully keep the record of everything you ever bought and sell it to anyone who will pay for it, in the name of "marketing" to you later on. If they want that kind of information from me, it will cost them a lot more than 30 cents off the price of a box of crackers. There is a reason some of us are Luddites.

Ken, off to use the telescope and think about other worlds for awhile.

I can't find them

Nanette
On the first page of the way-back machine, you just type the URL of concertina.net.
See the picture below:

Click to view attachment

After clicking the "Take me back" button, you will get a result-page like this:

Click to view attachment

I just started surfing, beginning with the oldest date and soon came across the old forum.

Hope that everything is well with you!

Unfortunately access is most erratic, beacuse 1) Wayback machine only makes snapshots of pages on certain dates. If the posting you want is not visible on such a day you won't find it; 2) its even money if you click on a post to view it whether you will see it, be invited to join the new forum, or hang your browser. I guess I shall wait patiently until Paul has the time to create the read-only version of the old forum.

I have to say it does remind one how nice the old interface was that Paul designed

Chris

So I checked for a web site which I've never completed or announced to the world. Periodic copies of the entry page are there, showing my announcement that there's really nothing there. There are even a couple of copies from before I put anything there, with my internet provider's logo and stock announcement that the site is "under construction until further notice". It seems clear that they simply fish the internet for pages to copy, and if they do any checks on content, relevance isn't a criterion.