Ahh yes the Castagnari melodeon AKA Max..

My comments were in reference to quality...perhaps there is a Cajun box made to the same level, but I have not seen it.

Bass boxes/growl boxes are the bain/bane of society... they are at best awkward and the "max" is the worst fo the bunch.. add to that the ridiculous placement of the air button, difficult even for a contortionist. I did get used to the "Max" bass box and air button after a time.

Interestingly the "MAX" bass box is not built the same way as the Cajun/traditional bass box.. and could be eliminated...

Were I to design a single row, there would be no bass box.. buttons yes, box no..
It would be similar to a Vienna style bass button arrangement .. might even have 4 or more buttons actually levers.. I prefer them..

The Hohners can be "Hot Rodded" a bit, I have seen them with bass box with buttons instead of levers and a a double frame each side of the bellows...
even upgraded reeds and bellows but not all in the same box


Melodie of Montmagny seems to be building very fine "modernized" boxes and oof course Messervier continues the tradition of quality..

I still think there is major room for advancement in the single row box..

Stephen, you are welcome.. I speak with John/Elton on occasion...he keeps inviting me to visit,,says I ought to move there.. perhaps one day I will make it there. In addition to making accordions and accordion parts he also has a metal file sharpening business.. keeps him busy.

I envy your Aeola...if I had it I may forsake the single row..

I nearly jumped ship and went "English" a few years back when I had a chance to buy a used Homewood for $2500 US... stupidly I did not....

One very good maker and good value for the money is Jude Moreau in Groves Texas...improved greatly in a couple years... around $1100 and compares with Savoys top of the line at $1700

jeff

I had the wonderful pleasure of seeing/hearing Raynauld Ouellet in concert and at worshops. I think he's the finest Qubecois melodean I ever heard. I don't play melodean but attending his workshop just to hear him play up close. The point of mentioning this is that he makes the most beautiful and nicest sounding melodeans I have heard. Someone in this thread mentioned that they are interested in Quebecois Melodeans: well he would be the one to buy one from.I remember the cost was extremely reasonable.--Steven

Speaking of which, here's an older one that has just been relisted on eBay. But don't expect a bargain, as it originally went for £740.00 (about the price of a new one !) on 19th December. Maybe it was just too loud for his wife !

I don't contribute much these days, I still lurk, but only occassionally, but I feel I must defend the Castagnari Max a bit.

I have one of these beasts, in C, and I love it. True I have never tried a genuine Cajun built box, but comparing it with those 1 row 4 stops I have played (Hohner, Saltarelle, Acadian (ie the one from The Music Room" in the UK)), I consider it to be well out in front.

In particular I think the sound is great and very open, particularly in comparison to the Hohner and the Salterelle which, in comparison, sound like your playing them behind a series of blankets. Also the reed response is superb.

To balance the argument;

I agree that, for me, the position of the air button is a little awkward, and the bass box it a bit too wide (I only have small hands), but if I play the basses with the 1st and 4th fingers the thumb is not too far from the air button.

Also the Max seems quite heavy on air and its frame is smaller (than a Honher) so you have less air to play with in the first place, but then I do play loudly.

The mounting of the reeds may well affect the sound, but I suspect that for the vast majority of people it would not be too noticeable, and having the reeds blocks removeable is a great help when it comes to maintenance. In fact my Hohner has glued in reed blocks which are a complete pain for maintenance (though Stephens comments suggest that they are removeable on later models).


Curiously enough my second favourite would probably be the Acadian from "The Music room". This was a great box for not much more than a new Hohner would have cost. It too had a very open sound and was responsive. I actually went as far as ordering one of these, but when the 4-6 week delivery stretched to 6 months I cancelled the order. As it happened I then managed to pick up the Max off E-bay for £500.


Obviously the choice of instrument is a very personal thing and I have no argument with Stephen for growing to hate it. "Horses for Courses" and all that stuff.


And to end; a joke:

Q: Why to people take an instant dislike to ............* melodeons?

A: It saves time.

* Insert your least favourite melodeon brand here.


And a rather late Happy New Year to you all.

Clive.

Aside from quality there is the issue of "fun to play"

Here I will rank the MAX at the top
with a close second for the Hohner 114 and 113
Next Quebec boxes ( my limited experience)
Then Cajun Boxes
All the rest

subject to change

Jeff

In this thread about (Cajun) melodeons I see a nice opportunity to present some very good Dutch makers of as we call it "harmonica's":
Karel van de Leeuw (Dutch only)
Frans van der Aa (Dutch & English)
Both sites do not only show pictures and sound of great machine but are also a great example of nice web sites (IMO)
Some pictures from Karel's websites:

Thanks Henk, I'm particularly intrigued by the possibilities of the Dutch/Belgian style basses on the one- and two-row melodions you illustrate. They might be considered "cheating" in melodeon competitions here, but the prospect of additional A (draw) and G (draw) basses on a 1-row D is very tempting.

Do you know what Karel charges for such a machine ?

Well perhaps we should just agree to differ on this one Jeff. As I said, I have no experience of the Quebecois boxes (but would love to try one), but the other three I would list in reverse order, yes, with even the Hohner ahead of the Castagnari, and for sheer "fun to play" I have yet to find anything to beat my Doucet !

I am not alone in preferring a good Cajun box, Paul Hurst, who was selling his surplus Marc Savoy C on eBay in December, wrote "The Savoy are to my mind the finest available (I’ve also owned two Castagnari ‘Max’s in the past)", and I have met others too who would feel that way.

Having said which, I sold my own Castagnari to Paul Brock and another to Brendan Begley, two of the finest accordion players in Ireland, but Bobby Gardiner (my favourite player) doesn't like either the Castagnari, or the Cajun boxes, and sticks to a Hohner in G.

Horses for courses !

More "nuthers

I spoke with Karel before the Euro went up.. at that time he wanted $1800-2200 US for a single row 4 bass with levers (still my favorite)
He said 1 or 2 years when he would get around to doing another batch of 1 rows
So with no specific commitment as to price or time I did not order..
But I think these could be great boxes..had I ordered then I would have it now : (

In thinking about ALL the factors involved including current prices, quality, fun factor etc.. I agree with you.. the Castagnari would not be on top.

I am speaking to a Cajun builder now to get him to make a box to my specifications, including tuning....with some serious modifications.. and hopefully I can make some of the components ( specifically the woodwork)
have him do the assembly and reed work,,,
Note Gaillard used to send his boxes out to be tuned , unless things have changed
Gaillard made some interesting one rows...not sure if he still offers them

Speaking of single rows, did anyone ever get a chance to play the Saltarelle single row 2 (two ) reed cajun style box...not the 4 reed but the 2 reed...?

Amazing .. 3 of my favorite players.. Brock, Begley and Gardiner...
and 2 of three play Castagnari one row , the other a Hohner...

I have a Hohner 2 stopper in "A" that is a kick.. but my favorite Hohner "was" a 113 3 stopper L,M,H in D which I sold to Paul Groff....

Also the German made Regals and house branded units for Hobgoblin (Galotta) werent bad with a spring conversion and some tweeking and tuning...I had a good one in C...

My first single row was an early 20th Century 4 stopper no name in sharped Bb I got from P. Groff.. I played that wheezy unit for a year before I "stepped" up...

Right now I am borderline on getting another concertina or buying back my Castagnari 1 row in C.... I would be tempted to rip off that bass box..
maybe I should stay away from it and leave it stock for someone else considering they may be discontinued and a collectors box...I am a player

Note Stephen from my last post " subject to change " : )

Jeff

Well it looks like Steve has got his accordion safely & seems happy with it, as I see he has left positive feedback for the seller :

Best Transaction Ever! Great Communication, Fast Delivery, Item as Described! A+

I reckon he must be busy squeezing !

LOL! You're absolutely right Stephen! I received the accordion Monday afternoon and have been busy making my thumb sore! It has proven to be a wonderfully well made instrument that truly is brand new. When I took it out of the case (Oh, man! the case!) it looked as if I was the first to do so.
With eBay, the pictures are always misleading, sometimes to the good, sometimes to the bad. Buying it unseen, I was apprehensive about the quality of this box until I first held it. There is no doubt that this box should rightfully have brought twice what I paid.
It seems to be constructed of beautifully grained maple and is tuned to "C". (Yay!)
Thanks for passing on this one and letting me know about it. You have unleashed another Cajun player on an unsuspecting world. Aaaa-YEEEEEEEH!

Hmmm.. Can I take this as the correct "yell" for a cajun session. I need to get this right to save embarrassement. (I realise I ought to say Heuuch (sp?) for scottish and Yee-ha! for C&W) and should I yell with a french accent

Maybe this will help:
Cajun Yell

Chris,

You can indeed, though I have more usually seen it written Aieee ! And in Ireland you will sometimes hear a cry of Hup !, while at a French gypsy jazz session Très fort !' or maybe Très chaud ! would be well received.

Glad to hear the accordion is everything it looked/could be hoped to be Steve (I was a bit worried).

Another reason I didn't bid on that one, which I didn't mention previously, is that I am (still) waiting for a 10-key 4-stop melodeon from Germany, bought off eBay at the beginning of the month, made in the same factory that built the original Cajun Monarchs & Sterlings, and said to be in restored condition. I have my fingers crossed, as I have been looking for one of those for a long time too.

Click to view attachment

AND I was waiting for the close of the sale of an Italo-Irish-American Baldoni, Bartoli 10-key, 2-bass accordion (not a melodeon, but played like one) which ended yesterday on eBay. These were very popular with Irish musicians in the US from the end of the 1920's until the 1960's, being played by people like P.J. Conlon, Ann (Ma) McNulty and Joe Derrane, and this looks like quite an old one. Needless to say, I have also wanted one of these for many years too. It is clearly in need of a lot of tlc, but I still can't believe I got it for only $28.00 !

Click to view attachment

So just how lucky can a guy get in the space of barely two weeks !

(And now you see why I couldn't afford to buy the "Bon Temps" too !)

Edited pictures.

Point of order: As a card carrying Peckerwood from North Carolina, I have always prefered the more colorful "Yee-Haw" for bluegrass or CW. Very important that "W". Leaving the Rebel Yell in an open vowel somehow seems to be sacrilege.

And in England a cry of "What's yours" never gets complaints.

Chris (who ever lives in hope)

Steve,

I just noticed something, which could make your thumb a lot less sore when playing : there is no shoulder strap with that accordion, and nothing to attach one to. I'm surprised that the maker didn't fit the brackets, mine came with them provided, and I'm sure the original owner would have fitted a strap if he had played it.

Go to a hardware shop and buy a couple of the 1" D-rings they use to hang pictures, they are fitted to a metal plate with one, or better two holes for screw fixing. They are usually attached through the metal bellows frame corner plates (you will have to drill through them) one on top and the other on the side (at the bottom). You don't need a big, heavy accordion strap, one meant for a 2-row diatonic should be perfect.

Hope this helps your poor thumb, cher !

Pint of "Peddie" thanks Chris, didn't know it was your round !

Actually, I know the pictures aren't great but, although it didn't have a strap, it does have the "D" rings in place. I took a shoulder strap off of a soft briefcase I have and it works perfectly.

As for my thumb, it's just that it's not used to being anchored. With my anglo concertina the thumb bondage thing just isn't an issue. But I'm getting used to it.

Ever heard "If I Only Had A Brain" cajun style?

OK, if I look hard at the image of the back of it I can just make out a couple of silvery splotches against the gold of the bellows corner plates, right where I said they should be !

You wouldn't think my eyesight used to be perfect until I started to use a computer ...


Oh, you mean " "Si Moi J'Avais Un Cerveau" ?

Ye, yaille cher !

Isn't that known as Bluegrass? (Time to run!)

Ouch! Recon' ah had that un' acomin'....Maw! where in tarnation did ja hide my corn squeezins'!

Junior, Fetch me up a rope.

Is that where the term "redneck" comes from?

Well, Junior, make sure you bring him "enough" rope.

Well, no Jim. It refers to my relatives skin pigmentation. Dear ole' Dad and his side were very fair....one dare say white? Crackers (that would be a fair discription of most of the family) never take off their shirts while working outside. They never seem to tan, only achieve an angry reddish burn around the neck. On the few occations I saw Dad "sans" shirt the contrast between the red neck and the lily white torso was...well, remarkable.

Momma an' nem' are a bit on the dark side as am I. We browns up right nice thank ye!

Now 'bout dat' rope...

Well since the regions of the US that is most famous for Red Necks are also areas with heavy Scotts-Irish immigration it is not necessarily all that crackers for them not to take their shirts off.

--
Bill

Please, please make it Old Rope.
(Or should I be playing like Brer Rabbit, and saying "no, no, not Old Rope!"?)

Bill you are correct...however, something happened to those immigrants: They incountered heat and BUGS baby. Men of my fathers generation even prefered long sleeve work shirts in summer for protection from sun and swarms of bloodthirsty, 24-7 BUGS!

Also, the overly shame-based forms of religion prevalent in the deep south demanded modesty from male and female adults alike (past, get thee behind me! ).

Jim, I like your thinking on the rope bit.

Oh, Bill I hate to say this but the Scotts-Irish immigrants were Crackers...Peckerwoods...and my Auntie Maybel's favorite phrase...White Trash.

Just remember that no fewer than 11 US presidents were Scotts-Irish; including some of the more important presidents we have had.

--
Bill

Oh I do Bill, I'm very proud to be of Peckerwood extraction. You know, Dubbya (after all It's Dubbya big day) is of Scott's extraction as well.

Please don't take what I said about my own heritage as a "dis". 'Twas just my southern humor leakin' out... Dad burnit Maw you can't take that boy anywhere!

Editoral note: In honesty, one of my ancestors was Henry Clay of Kentucky with all the good and bad that encompasses. Ain't it about time ya'll get back ta squeeze boxes? I'll shut up an' read from now on.

A bit like the one in crayfish/crawfish ?

Exactement!

Tonight I also bought a Globe "Gold Medal" melodeon (with original case + cardboard box) off eBay :

Click to view attachment

This was the instrument played by John Kimmel and the great Irish-American players who followed him in the 1920's, such as P.J. Conlon and Jerry O'Brien (before they both changed to the Irish-Model Italo-American Baldoni, Bartoli ). Both it (the key is labelled on the outside of the box) and the International (here) that I bought from Germany recently (which arrived today) are in the key of D, as these models commonly are.

And I would be extremely surprised if the Baldoni, Bartoli (here), which has got delayed in the New York blizzards, is in any other key either.

Edited to add more quotes (because it's fun ! )

And edited again to improve photo, and add Kimmel.

And yet again for links.

Stephen,

Congrats on the new instruments. Have fun. You deserve it. How's the ankle? Not dancing yet, I gather.

Helen

Thanks Helen, I can't believe just how lucky I have been with instruments this month , though it is going to take me a long time to put them all into playable condition . Don't be surprised if I'm not posting here so much for a while, I'm going to have plenty to do over the next few months, one way and another.


No, but I did find my battery charger and start driving again on Sunday, starting with a short run to Cappa, and then a longer one to Kilkee. It was wonderfully liberating after 7 weeks stuck in this flat . The prisoner has escaped ! I even drove to Ennis today.

Still can't walk without crutches though.

I'm reminded of another (very) old joke :

Patient : "Doctor, Doctor, will I be able to dance when my ankle gets better ?"

Doctor : "I don't see any reason why not."

Patient : "Gosh, that's wonderful, I couldn't dance before I broke it !"

Phooey Stephen,

You can't stop posting. And don't give the instruments as an excuse. You were posting because you couldn't get out of the house. Now you are free. And you've tossed us over.

Seriously, glad you can get out and about. Must have been terrible to be stuck for so long.

Helen

And about that dancing ...

Who said I was going to stop ? I'm just expecting to return to a more "normal" level ...


Like I said, "one way and another" : I have to get walking again, move into my new place, carry out some building work, open a shop, get my new concertina-making project going and fix all these wonderful old instruments off eBay.


You want me to find time for that as well ... ?

Uh huh, sure, yes I want you to find time for dancing too, Stephen.

I know you didn't say you were going to stop posting, I was just pulling your leg. Ouch. Sorry, Jim's punniness rubbed off on me for a bit. I'm okay now.

Wow a new shop. What fun. Gosh now I really have to get to Ireland.

To look at your shop not to tease you. Oh well, maybe some teasing would be involved.

So what kind of dancing...

Helen

I just returned from New Orleans and went to a few Cajun places and I am very impressed by the strong reed sound of the Cajun accordians. It sounds super.

Exactly how does one imitate a cajun accordian using a 30 buton CG anglo?

And if I orderd a Cajun accordian, what key what I want to get that deep, rich, Cajun sound? Thanks

Jim,

The nearest you can get is by playing it in octaves, in cross-keys on the C row, like a Cajun accordion.


There has already been some discussion of keys for different kinds of music :


It is normal for Cajun fiddle players to tune their fiddles down a tone to play with the C accordion, but if the accordion player has a second instrument it is usually in D and the fiddle player will have a second instrument in normal tuning.

Well the Baldoni, Bartoli survived the New York snow and blizzards, and finally arrived here in sunny Co. Clare today. It's a wonderful piece of "Shamrockery", though in pretty poor condition, certainly not "playable" as the seller suggested, though about a third of the reeds could well have fallen off the blocks and into the bellows in transit. It looks like somebody just levered the original fretcut & engraved celluloid grill off it (instead of finding a screwdriver ?), leaving some remnants behind. Restoring it should keep me occupied for quite a long time to come, but hey, I'm not complaining, it only cost 28 bucks !

But the significant, and unsurprising, piece of news is that it turns out to be in the key of D, as expected.

It's going to be an interesting tuning job though, as it turns out to have six sets of reeds, four in the middle, a piccolo and a low-octave set (not unusual for one of these boxes). That should make a bit of noise !

Listten to anything by the band Bayou Gumbo, where you'll hear Harry Scurfield doing exactly that with his Dipper C/G.

Chris

Stephen, Could you explain to me what you mean by cross keys? Thanks, Jim

What I mean by "cross keys" could best be summarised as "using one key to play in another", or in the context of the blues harp or melodeon "playing on the draw instead of on the blow", blues harmonica players do it all the time, as do cajun accordion players. It is what gives both forms of playing so much of their flavour, without which they would not be as "blue".

It is why you buy a blues harmonica in G if you want to play in D, but if you actually want to play in G then you have to buy one in C. Take a look at the chart here on the Lee Oskar website.

Here is a "blue(s)" joke I came across : "Don't let cross keys make you angry "

Indeed, having come to concertina from years of playing blues harmonica, my first and still strongest instinct is to play on the cross. Playing mostly on the push, or "straight harp" still sounds too "sweet" to me, though 'tina has gradually changed my ear...sorta like RED was talking about in another thread a while ago.

Iam looking for a pattern on building a cajun accoridion. Also, if someone has an old cajun accordion that is broken, I would appreciate if someone could donate to me to build my kid an accordion and help transfer the cajun culture to him , so he can continue. If you can help me, please email me at: david633@bellsouth.net

thanks
david

http://pub21.bravenet.com/forum/show.php?usernum=1722942123


try here

Jeff

Hi! If someone would have an old cajun accordion that is worn or broken and not in use, please would you donate to me so I can allow my son to learn to build the cajun accordion and learn to play. I hear in many programs on tv, radio, and from other sources about the kids in Louisiana need to know about our cajun culture and the music, foods, language. But, I have tried to ask many people out there for help in getting an old accordion to learn from. Many of the people out there are not willing to help. To get off the subject of accordion for a while, in our school that offer french immersion, many of the kids and maybe many, don't have textbooks or workbooks. How do you expect these kids to learn a language, if all the sources are not available? If you want someone to learn a language, it is essential that you teach how to write, read, and talk. But, without textbooks and workbooks, then our schools cannot help these kids learn and the course if not good for them and I think it is a waste of our tax dollar of the "working community". So, just think about what I am saying. If we plan to help our kids learn, we need to provide them the essential tools to do the job correctly.
Thanks for letting me give my post. IF you would like to contact me, please email to: david633@bellsouth.net
thanks and take care
dave