Since Mrs Bailey forced me to decorate the kitchen where I do most of my practic(s)e I have to stand up to play, I have discovered two things:

1. I can put far more expression into the tunes by not having one end of the concertina glued to my leg.

2. I can only reliably remember tunes I have learned stood up if I stand up to play them.

How many of us play without the concertina resting on a leg and do they also find it adds freedom to their expression?

Is it normal to have muscle memory which depends on the position you learned a tune in to affect the ability to reproduce it?

I wish someone would decorate my kitchen, besides my cats and dogs....!!

What a great new forum this is, this is my first post, under my new 'ID' which was my name before (Wendy S.)

I try to discipline myself to play more 'in air suspended' like I would if standing up, though I'm often tired and slump down. I do think it can make the song 'fly' a bit more, sometimes.

Yes, I find the 'muscle memory' factor to be true -- I think my fingers like choreography and I enjoy dance steps over more 'cerebral' type note-reading, I think. Though, I don't know if someone else wuld say that's 'bad' or whatever.


I ideally want to get more used to standing up since I want my breathing apparatus to be more free for singing. This is the main reason I ended up getting a concertina instead of an accordion (for singing).

1. I personally prefer holding the instrument free, and I often hold it suspended above my legs even when I'm seated.

I do find that having the instrument free/suspended makes expressive control easier. It is possible, though, to develop excellent expressive control even with one end fixed (e.g., on a leg). It just takes a bit more practice

2. Muscle memory is a common experience. Actually, I would prefer to call it "context memory", since it can be connected to factors other than body position. E.g., some folks can't play tunes when they're sober that they learned when they were drunk.

My old concertina teacher, now departed, only ever played standing up, he often said that when standing the concertina became part of him and any emotion he was feeling was transfered to the instrument. I have to say that I also prefer standing up to play, it some how feels more natural.

I play standing up sometimes but I think it places more strain on wrists and forearms than sitting down. I prefer to sit down and thus have a more stable platform for working on the buttons. Standing up has some advantages though - it enables you to play the anglo behind your head like Jimi Hendrix - though it usually fails to impress anyone.

I've never been very good at playing standing up - I guess I just have weak arms or something because they soon start to ache and at that point any subtlety goes right out the window. But recently Anne and I have started playing for a North West morris side and you can hardly sit down for that. So Anne and I have both come up with the same solution - get a Morse. They are so light even wimps like us can play standing up for hours.

Chris

Chris

I am down your way fairly regularily visiting my mum. What side do you play for and where can I find when they are dancing?

Mr Wilkins Shilling, a sid based in Bath. I can't remember the rest of this year's dancing schedule, since we've only recently started going again after the events of last March. Drop us a line when you're next around, it'll be good to meet again anyway.

Chris

A general observation - meaning that it does not necessarily apply to all players: South African players often play standing up. Many of them tend to support and align the ends of the concertina by resting the pinkie while playing. Personally, I rest one end on a knee.

In my view and in short....particularly the small concertinas do attract the idea of playing standing and conditionally that the obstacles to carry the instrument , controlling the bellows and managing finger work all at the same time are overcome greater musical expression and dynamics may be achieved playing standing than seated.
'Normally' however this is hardly possible except for specific situations and for specific music. To make playing standing comfortable and advantageous the 'handle' and the way carrying the instrument has to be improved.
Have a look at earlier articles on the subject:

http://www.concertina.net/goran_holding.html

http://www.concertina.net/goran_supporting.html
http://www.concertina.net/images/goran_supporting.gif

Ah, here we go, again.

Were Göran's statement true, I would say that I'm "abnormal", and proud of it.

I don't believe his statement is true, unless the "specific" music he refers to includes "all the specific music I play" and "specific situations" most of the specific situations where I find myself playing.

Well, even if his statement isn't true, I'll say that I'm "abnormal", and proud of it. :-)

Can we have a picture to back up that statement?

Chris

Hi Friends,
The question of whether to play seated or standing seems to come around more often than any other subject and invariably leads to yet another onslaught of blinding with VIRTUAL science. I will offer observations based on simple long experience of performing in concerts, recording sessions, dance gigs & live jazz gigs.
First of all, there is quite a weight difference between the treble & baritone instruments , the treble allowing standing playing of most single noted playing with relative ease. However, when chords are to be played, it is often required to use the 4th (little) finger . (you could not ,for instance, perform the Estrellita arrangement from my English Connection C.D. without the use of the 4th finger)
When performing in the recording studio with an orchestra, it is very rare for anyone but the conductor to be standing so that a perseverance of playing seated is a must.
Most of the old Concertina tutors advise the use of a simple sling to support the instrument when playing stood up and I have found that playing Jazz or Dance gigs
to be no problem using a sling with my trusty Baritone.
I hope that the above will offer a little help to those friends particularly in the early stages of playing this wonderfull instrument.
It looks as though this new forum format will match the abilities of Wheatstones invention. John Nixon.

Is playing standing up a "good thing?" For me, often, it's the only thing; it's hard to play for Morris dancers while reclining. I've learned to walk and play, but it IS hard on the tendons and has aggravated my tennis elbow. I now use a small portable stool; i use it to raise my knee to provide a suitable platform. I play standing up, without support, but especially during long dances return periodically to the stool to relieve the pressure on my arms and wrists.

As far as having more expression while standing up: that doesn't work for me, mostly because pain is not a good spur to expression.

[QUOTE]

WOW! Jimi Hendrix played concertina as well??



John Wild

Reply to Jim:
You are always referring to yourself Jim when objecting to the suggested improvements of handling the instrument. Whether you are abnormal or not is of minor interest...for some reason you manage and are fully satisfied with it..one common reason is that everyone adapts to own resources. If you ask a lot of players you will likely find that English-players are not very fond of playing standing, Anglo-players quite often enjoy it and Duet players form a more mixed group. Of course it is to a part related to the way the instrument is carried, the weight of it and the effort doing the bellows-work...all of this depending on the efficiency of the 'handle'

Reply to John Nixon:
You evidently approve of the idea supporting the instrument with a "sling" ( I guess around the neck). The 'idea' is fine but the 'method' however is not an ideal in case you refer to the 'thin cord' suggested in old tutors..have a look at the "Supporting..." article of mine.
I agree that in principle the weight difference between small and large concertinas should not be much of a problem when playing standing conditionally that a good way 'carrying' the instrument is achieved and the optimal method may vary depending on the situation. I use elastic broad straps NOT around the neck but either double braces/suspenders (for trousers) and hanging the instrument in the front ends or one strap over one shoulder and under the other arm..left or right
depending on which arm is doing the dominating bellows-work.

If you're interested in playing standing up, here's a link to a chord that you can attach around your neck. I've not tried it, since it looks very nerdy :-)

http://www.concertinaconnection.com/holding%20instrument.htm

It´s all "just" training! Pietro Valente playes complex jazz arrangements and he never sits. He´s old now and the CD sold on ebay doesn`t really do him justice. (It was recorded more or less "live" and he was 78 I think.) But you get the idea what is possible.

Nils

FOLKS: As John Nixon said: here we go again. Indeed, it was an exchange on this very website that served as a jumping-off point for my discussion of how to hold the instrument -- there is NO correct way/there is NO incorrect way -- in Contemplating the Concertina, where I try to show that there have always been those who played standing and that there have always been those who have played sitting and that there might have been those who heeded the remarks of William Cawdell, who, in 1865, penned the following:

The concertina may be played in any position, standing, sitting, walking, kneeling, or even lying down. If confined to the house by a sprained ankle, you may play whilst reclining on a sofa. . .and when you are convalescent, you may take your instrument into the fields where the Piano can never be.

Allan

Just now I tried playing a tune on my (English) concertina with my little finger in the straps and my thumbs in the finger plates. And at the SSI, a couple of us played a tune on two concertinas, each of us with one hand on each instrument. While the result in both cases was a recognizable tune, I would still venture that both methods should be considered "incorrect" for ordinary use.

Edited to add: In both instances mentioned above, I was standing.

As Jim Lucas said "Ah, here we go, again". I think I also read a lot on this subject in another forum.

I have recently purchased Allan Atlas's book 'Comtemplating the Concertina', and have found it very useful for many things, but especially for holding the instrument. I think it is worth quoting his Moral II " Do what's comfortable". I actually came to this conclusion many years ago.

I play an English Concertina and always play sitting, however there have been a couple of gigs where I have had to attempt to play standing. Many years ago (pre-internet) I looked into a strap and got a really well-informed letter from Douglas Rogers (dated 21 September 1991) on how to make one but I never got around to making it.

The internet and forums like these are great for the exchange of ideas. I may even purchase one of those "nerdy" cords.

Nanette

NANETTE: many thanks for the kind words. . . . .obviously, the goal of that chapter was neither to PREscribe nor PROscribe any one method of holding the instrument. . . . rather it was to present a concise "historical survey" -- by means of tutors and photos -- of the various ways in which various concertinists have held the instrument. . . . . .and yes, i would reiterate my "moral": DO WHAT'S COMFORTABLE. . . . .we're making music, not posing for a sculptor . . . . . .

and to Jim L's two INcorrect ways of holding the instrument, let me add a third (at least i've found it rather inconvenient): playing with one hand in the shower while washing one's hair with the other..........

yes, i suppose there are some INcorrect ways of doing anything. . . . .for instance, trying to eat rice with ONE chopstick (at least trying to eat more than one grain at a time)..............on the other hand, i guess that one can always SPEAR that piece of sushi after running the single chopstick through a pencil sharpener. . . . . .remember that utensils (knives and forks) did not become part and parcel of most households until the sixteenth century. . . . . . .until then it was considered quite correct to eat with one's fingers and even to pass the goblet of wine around. . . . .indeed II: it was only at the end of the sixteenth century that the FORK, appearently first used in Venice, began to spread throughout europe. . . .indeed III: writing in the early seventeenth century, the English traveller Thomas Coryat noted the following while meandering through Italy:

I observed a custome in all those Italian Cities and twons through which I passed, that is not used in any other country that I saw in my travels. . . .The Italian and also most strangers that are commorant in Italy, doe alwaies at their meales use a little forke when they cut their meat. For while with their knife which they hold in one hand they cut the meate out of the dish, they fasten their forke which they hold in their other hand upon the same dish, so that whatsoever he be that sitting in the company of any others at meale, shoulde unadvisedly touch the dishe of meate with his fingers from which all at table doe cut, he will give occasion of offence unto the company. . . .This forme of feeding I understand is generally used in all places of Italy, their forkes being for the most part made of yron or steele, and some of silver. . . .The reason of this their curiosity is, because the Italian cannot by any means indure to have his dish touched with fingers, seeing all men's fingers are not alike cleane (after Richard Barber, Cooking and Recipes from Rome to the Renaissance [London: Allen Lane, 1973], 119).

For my English concertina I found that a strap was really needed when I play standing, primarily to take most of the weight off my wrists. I went to my local fabric store and picked out a couple of different ribbons that matched the green and gold on my concertina's bellows. After a bit of knot adjustment to get a length that felt consistently right, I stitched a loop in the end and put it under the thumbstrap screw. When I'm sitting I just let the ribbon lie behind the instrument.

I don't remember which book mentioned the ribbon idea. It might have been Mr. Atlas', or one of the (several) others I picked up to learn more about this instrument that has fascinated me for so long.

- Keith