[eitreach]

I recently bought myself a 20-button concertina from Thomann.de, (name of the brand as well) but all this pushing and pulling with different tones is making me crazy. I think I might be better off with a chromatic one instead, thus this topic. I'm rather new to all this, so be gentle. I'm hoping for a trade - that someone might be able to help a newbie out finding the right instrument.

I have been told that I might be well off setting a price as well - How about 120 euros? I gave 160 for it myself, and it's about a week old.

I'm located in Denmark - if anyone's interested.

This post has been edited by eitreach: 28 June 2009 - 01:56 PM

[JimLucas]

eitreach, on Jun 28 2009, 08:55 PM, said:

I recently bought myself a 20-button concertina from Thomann.de, (name of the brand as well) but all this pushing and pulling with different tones is making me crazy. I think I might be better off with a chromatic one instead, thus this topic. I'm rather new to all this, so be gentle. I'm hoping for a trade - that someone might be able to help a newbie out finding the right instrument.

I have been told that I might be well off setting a price as well - How about 120 euros? I gave 160 for it myself, and it's about a week old.

I'm located in Denmark - if anyone's interested.

Where in Denmark?

I'm in Helsingør (north of Copenhagen).

I don't have any concertinas for sale, but if you live near enough to come for a visit (I'll send you a PM with my email and phone number), I can let you get your fingers on a few different kinds, so you can see if any of them suit you before you buy one.

But for anything decent, I'm afraid you'll need to pay nearly double what you paid for the Thoman. The entry-level instruments made by Concertina Connection are priced at $340-360 (about €250). No Scandinavian dealer, as far as I know, but others on this forum will be able to tell you how to order them in Europe.

[eitreach]

JimLucas, on Jun 28 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

eitreach, on Jun 28 2009, 08:55 PM, said:

I recently bought myself a 20-button concertina from Thomann.de, (name of the brand as well) but all this pushing and pulling with different tones is making me crazy. I think I might be better off with a chromatic one instead, thus this topic. I'm rather new to all this, so be gentle. I'm hoping for a trade - that someone might be able to help a newbie out finding the right instrument.

I have been told that I might be well off setting a price as well - How about 120 euros? I gave 160 for it myself, and it's about a week old.

I'm located in Denmark - if anyone's interested.

Where in Denmark?

I'm in Helsingør (north of Copenhagen).

I don't have any concertinas for sale, but if you live near enough to come for a visit (I'll send you a PM with my email and phone number), I can let you get your fingers on a few different kinds, so you can see if any of them suit you before you buy one.

But for anything decent, I'm afraid you'll need to pay nearly double what you paid for the Thoman. The entry-level instruments made by Concertina Connection are priced at $340-360 (about €250). No Scandinavian dealer, as far as I know, but others on this forum will be able to tell you how to order them in Europe.

Hi there.

I was affraid so. That's why I was hoping to find something used, seeing my budget is a bit less than that - it's a bit sad, really, but such are things at the moment..

It'd be nice to try it out though - Helsingør.. That's around eastern Zealand, isn't it? I'm stationed in midtjylland - Brande, to be exact.. Let's hope my geography skills suck just a bit - it'd be nice if it was closer, because I'm quite interested.

[JimLucas]

eitreach, on Jun 28 2009, 10:02 PM, said:

JimLucas, on Jun 28 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

eitreach, on Jun 28 2009, 08:55 PM, said:

I'm located in Denmark - if anyone's interested.

I'm in Helsingør (north of Copenhagen).

...if you live near enough to come for a visit ..., I can let you get your fingers on a few different kinds, so you can see if any of them suit you before you buy one.

... Helsingør.. That's around eastern Zealand, isn't it? I'm stationed in midtjylland - Brande, to be exact.. Let's hope my geography skills suck just a bit - it'd be nice if it was closer, because I'm quite interested.

Nope. Your geography is, unfortunately, accurate. It looks like we're 350-400 km apart by train or car, and there's that big toll bridge in between.

[eitreach]

JimLucas, on Jun 28 2009, 03:36 PM, said:

eitreach, on Jun 28 2009, 10:02 PM, said:

JimLucas, on Jun 28 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

eitreach, on Jun 28 2009, 08:55 PM, said:

I'm located in Denmark - if anyone's interested.

I'm in Helsingør (north of Copenhagen).

...if you live near enough to come for a visit ..., I can let you get your fingers on a few different kinds, so you can see if any of them suit you before you buy one.

... Helsingør.. That's around eastern Zealand, isn't it? I'm stationed in midtjylland - Brande, to be exact.. Let's hope my geography skills suck just a bit - it'd be nice if it was closer, because I'm quite interested.

Nope. Your geography is, unfortunately, accurate. It looks like we're 350-400 km apart by train or car, and there's that big toll bridge in between.

Geography aside, I hope you got my mail.

[JimLucas]

eitreach, on Jun 28 2009, 10:41 PM, said:

JimLucas, on Jun 28 2009, 03:36 PM, said:

... Your geography is, unfortunately, accurate. It looks like we're 350-400 km apart by train or car, and there's that big toll bridge in between.

Geography aside, I hope you got my mail.

Yep.

[Anglo-Irishman]

eitreach, on Jun 28 2009, 08:55 PM, said:

I recently bought myself a 20-button concertina from Thomann.de, (name of the brand as well) but all this pushing and pulling with different tones is making me crazy. I think I might be better off with a chromatic one instead, thus this topic. I'm rather new to all this, so be gentle. I'm hoping for a trade - that someone might be able to help a newbie out finding the right instrument.

I have been told that I might be well off setting a price as well - How about 120 euros? I gave 160 for it myself, and it's about a week old.

I'm located in Denmark - if anyone's interested.

eitreach,

"Only a week old"???

Think about it!

When you start learning guitar, it drives you crazy for MONTHS before you start getting it more or less right. The violin drives you crazy for years (and, in some cases, drives other people crazy all your life )

The 20-button Anglo concertina is a lot easier than either of the above, once you've crossed the initial threshold of the push-pull scale. It's this push-pull that makes harmonies so easy to improvise. Believe me, I'm a multi-instrumentalist, and the only instrument that's easier to start on is the autoharp - and it gets harder as you progress, whereas the Anglo gets easier. And the Anglo has no buzzung strings, no wavering pitches, no tuning problems ...

Patience is of the essence in learning any instrument Give it a couple of months, at least!

Cheers,
John

[Miklos Nemeth]

eitreach, on Jun 28 2009, 01:55 PM, said:

I think I might be better off with a chromatic one instead

I'd say exactly the opposite: learning a cheap English concertina could be much more tedious than learning a cheap Anglo. I think the quality of the instrument is much more important for an English than for an Anglo. The simpler and robust architecture of the Anglo makes possible a cheaper construction technology. If you are sure you go for the English, then you should pick a hand made quality instrument starting at around 2000 Euros. I am not an expert at all; these are just my first (possibly inaccurate) observations in the process of being a beginner in the Concertina World.
Miki

[Daniel Hersh]

I don't think that this is accurate in any way.

Daniel

Miklos Nemeth, on Jul 1 2009, 04:51 AM, said:

eitreach, on Jun 28 2009, 01:55 PM, said:

I think I might be better off with a chromatic one instead

I'd say exactly the opposite: learning a cheap English concertina could be much more tedious than learning a cheap Anglo. I think the quality of the instrument is much more important for an English than for an Anglo. The simpler and robust architecture of the Anglo makes possible a cheaper construction technology. If you are sure you go for the English, then you should pick a hand made quality instrument starting at around 2000 Euros. I am not an expert at all; these are just my first (possibly inaccurate) observations in the process of being a beginner in the Concertina World.
Miki

[Miklos Nemeth]

Daniel Hersh, on Jul 1 2009, 12:31 PM, said:

I don't think that this is accurate in any way.

I expected that I said wise things.

[m3838]

Miklos Nemeth, on Jul 1 2009, 03:03 PM, said:

Daniel Hersh, on Jul 1 2009, 12:31 PM, said:

I don't think that this is accurate in any way.

I expected that I said wise things.

In a way you have.
Anglo lends itself to simpler music and makes it listenable. The push/pull etc. English tends to draw people into more complex tunes, it's so easy to read in any keys, people begin to open some classical pieces and that's where quality kicks in. And simple folk tunes are pretty bland on English, again it needs more qualty for all those accents etc.

[Daniel Hersh]

Well, perhaps I was too harsh. I was primarily responding to the statement that "the simpler and robust architecture of the Anglo makes possible a cheaper construction technology." That doesn't sound at all right to me, but perhaps I misunderstood your meaning.

Regarding m3838's statement, he's given a good description of his own history with the English, but I don't know if that's a typical path for an English concertina learner to follow. He does imply an important point: the type of music that's going to be played has an impact on which instrument will be satisfactory, in terms of quality/price as well as in the choice of Anglo vs. English vs. duet.

m3838, on Jul 1 2009, 12:13 PM, said:

Miklos Nemeth, on Jul 1 2009, 03:03 PM, said:

Daniel Hersh, on Jul 1 2009, 12:31 PM, said:

I don't think that this is accurate in any way.

I expected that I said wise things.

In a way you have.
Anglo lends itself to simpler music and makes it listenable. The push/pull etc. English tends to draw people into more complex tunes, it's so easy to read in any keys, people begin to open some classical pieces and that's where quality kicks in. And simple folk tunes are pretty bland on English, again it needs more qualty for all those accents etc.

[Miklos Nemeth]

Daniel Hersh, on Jul 2 2009, 01:27 AM, said:

I was primarily responding to the statement that "the simpler and robust architecture of the Anglo makes possible a cheaper construction technology." That doesn't sound at all right to me, but perhaps I misunderstood your meaning.

I deducted this statement from some writings about the History of Concertina, and most of these texts explained that the Anglo became the favorite instrument for blue-collar workers because they were much more affordable and very easy to learn. Lachanel improved their production technology and they sold tens of thousands of affordable Anglos. The English remained the instrument of the higher classes. This may also explain why Irish traditional musicians used the Anglo. In today's Suttner price catalog an English is 1500 euros more expensive than an Anglo (basic model). It's highly probable that I misunderstood these stories.

This post has been edited by Miklos Nemeth: 02 July 2009 - 02:57 AM

[JimLucas]

Miklos Nemeth, on Jul 2 2009, 09:53 AM, said:

I deducted this statement from some writings about the History of Concertina, and most of these texts explained that the Anglo became the favorite instrument for blue-collar workers because they were much more affordable and very easy to learn. Lachanel improved their production technology and they sold tens of thousands of affordable Anglos. The English remained the instrument of the higher classes. This may also explain why Irish traditional musicians used the Anglo. In today's Suttner price catalog an English is 1500 euros more expensive than an Anglo (basic model). It's highly probable that I misunderstood these stories.

More than probable.

The construction of the early German concertinas (the originals of what we now call "anglos") was different from that of English-made instruments of the same period... simpler and less expensive, but not more "robust". This almost certainly made it more of a "folk" instrument, because more of the lower-income "folk" could afford one. Also, limited to two diatonic keys, it was inadequate for playing much of the "drawing room" music popular with the middle and upper classes of the time.

But when the English makers started making "anglos" ("Anglo-German" and "Anglo-Chromatic", to distinguish them from the cheaper "German" instruments from which they borrowed the keyboard concept), they did not use the German engineering/construction techniques. They used the same engineering/construction that they were already using for their English-system instruments. The anglos produced by Jones, Jeffries, Crabb, Lachenal, Wheatstone, etc. differ from their "English" models only in the number and placement of reeds (and the "handles", the means by which the instrument is held while being played), not in any basic element of construction or engineering.

The price difference between a basic anglo and a basic English in the Suttner catalog is easy to explain: The English has 58% more reeds, levers, pads, and buttons, all hand made. (Would be 60%, if one didn't count the air buttons on each.) The additional €1500 surely represents the additional cost of materials and labor.

The English is just as easy to learn as the anglo -- for me it was much easier, -- though in both cases the ease of learning depends on what exactly you're trying to play... the melody, the speed, the arrangement.

[Miklos Nemeth]

JimLucas, on Jul 2 2009, 03:48 AM, said:

The price difference between a basic anglo and a basic English in the Suttner catalog is easy to explain: The English has 58% more reeds, levers, pads, and buttons, all hand made. (Would be 60%, if one didn't count the air buttons on each.) The additional €1500 surely represents the additional cost of materials and labor.

I see the point, this explains why the prices of Anglo and English models from makers using accordion reeds are not significantly different: English models are always more expensive but not that much.

[eitreach]

Hmm.. I think I've decided to give the anglo a second chance, and find a used Rochelle or similar. Should I make a new thread for that, or just use this one?

[Daniel Hersh]

Start a new thread -- only the most dedicated c.net readers would find this down here...

eitreach, on Jul 2 2009, 09:51 AM, said:

Hmm.. I think I've decided to give the anglo a second chance, and find a used Rochelle or similar. Should I make a new thread for that, or just use this one?

[eitreach]

Daniel Hersh, on Jul 2 2009, 11:53 AM, said:

Start a new thread -- only the most dedicated c.net readers would find this down here...

eitreach, on Jul 2 2009, 09:51 AM, said:

Hmm.. I think I've decided to give the anglo a second chance, and find a used Rochelle or similar. Should I make a new thread for that, or just use this one?

Very well then.