[drbones]

THIS one looks pretty nice, however, Theres no pictures of the right side. They all come from the left. Something wrong with the right? Looks like the maker started with a 32 button reed pan. The hand strap says "Jeffries Maker".
I hereby summon the wisdom of the concertina Gurus. I know one of you knows what it actually is. Perhaps even intimately familiar with it.

[Daniel Hersh]

Crabb and Jeffries concertinas from this period are difficult to tell apart. Geoff Crabb says that the earliest concertinas with the Jeffries name stamp were actually made by Crabb, who also made concertinas that were sold under other names (Ball Beavon etc.) or with no brand name at all.

Daniel

drbones, on Jun 15 2009, 05:40 AM, said:

THIS one looks pretty nice, however, Theres no pictures of the right side. They all come from the left. Something wrong with the right? Looks like the maker started with a 32 button reed pan. The hand strap says "Jeffries Maker".
I hereby summon the wisdom of the concertina Gurus. I know one of you knows what it actually is. Perhaps even intimately familiar with it.

[wes williams]

Look at the pivot posts - they look fishtail shape to me. See if you agree. And if you do, your test for today will be : which maker(s) used fishtail pivots? Answers can be found in the forums here.

[david_boveri]

i'm saying crabb. i do not know what i'm talking about. rather than doing the research, i want to see how good my gut is. it may be a bad idea... but it gets me through school!

[Boney]

wes williams, on Jun 16 2009, 01:49 PM, said:

which maker(s) used fishtail pivots? Answers can be found in the forums here.

I tried several searches, and could find nothing about fishtail pivots.

[Daniel Hersh]

Wes--

Can you provide more of a clue as to where this info might be found? My searches turned up fishtail reeds, but no fishtail pivots.

Daniel

wes williams, on Jun 16 2009, 01:49 PM, said:

Look at the pivot posts - they look fishtail shape to me. See if you agree. And if you do, your test for today will be : which maker(s) used fishtail pivots? Answers can be found in the forums here.

[Stephen Chambers]

wes williams, on Jun 16 2009, 09:49 PM, said:

Look at the pivot posts - they look fishtail shape to me. See if you agree. And if you do, your test for today will be : which maker(s) used fishtail pivots? Answers can be found in the forums here.

Me, I've always called them "bell-shaped".

So it's maybe a Jones...

... or possibly a Shakespeare?

But certainly not a George Case!

So what's the prize?

[David Levine]

The concertina failed to make the reserve, which is higher than the $1,825 bid it received. For that price you can buy a very good hybrid or a 30B Lachenal - and be sure of what you are buying. Many musicians would feel limted by the 26 buttons rather than the usual 30. While the concertina seems to have been nicely restored I have no idea what all the hallmarks of a Jeffries or a Crabb means. The name on the straps means absolutely nothing. An auction like this is still a crapshoot.
A couple of years ago I bought just such a concertina. It also had been offered as possibly a Jeffries or a Crabb. The ends were not quite as finely cut as this one, but pretty ends is not a guarantee that this one is a Crabb or a Jeffries. I had a lot of work done to it before selling it to a board member, who also had work done to it. He sold it on when his newly made concertina arrived. Neither of us took much pleasure from the concertina and we both lost money trying to get it to play right.
My advice would be to stay away from this one unless you live in Australia and could play it, or were able to get a firm return policy from the seller.

[Daniel Hersh]

Excellent advice, David. I was probably too hasty in my earlier post -- Crabbs and early Jeffries do indeed have much in common, but that doesn't mean that this particular concertina is necessarily either a Crabb or a Jeffries. It's my impression that the offset third row could indicate that this may actually be a Jones, as Stephen suggested and Wes apparently implied. I don't know how one would identify a Shakespeare (Stephen's other suggestion).

Daniel

David Levine, on Jun 17 2009, 12:39 AM, said:

The concertina failed to make the reserve, which is higher than the $1,825 bid it received. For that price you can buy a very good hybrid or a 30B Lachenal - and be sure of what you are buying. Many musicians would feel limted by the 26 buttons rather than the usual 30. While the concertina seems to have been nicely restored I have no idea what all the hallmarks of a Jeffries or a Crabb means. The name on the straps means absolutely nothing. An auction like this is still a crapshoot.
A couple of years ago I bought just such a concertina. It also had been offered as possibly a Jeffries or a Crabb. The ends were not quite as finely cut as this one, but pretty ends is not a guarantee that this one is a Crabb or a Jeffries. I had a lot of work done to it before selling it to a board member, who also had work done to it. He sold it on when his newly made concertina arrived. Neither of us took much pleasure from the concertina and we both lost money trying to get it to play right.
My advice would be to stay away from this one unless you live in Australia and could play it, or were able to get a firm return policy from the seller.

This post has been edited by Daniel Hersh: 17 June 2009 - 12:10 PM

[wes williams]

Stephen Chambers, on Jun 17 2009, 01:02 AM, said:

So what's the prize?

None for you - you had insider knowledge!! And besides, I seem to remember you providing the answer originally. I wanted to see how good our forum concertina spotters had become - and it looks like a few more lessons are required.

Lesson 1: Levers and pivots (actions) are a very good guide to the maker, but there are always exceptions, so its never 100%.

a. Lachenal pivots are staples, either flat plates or, in low end anglos, round wire.
b. Wheatstone, Jeffries and Crabb have rivetted actions with straight side pivots. Crabb and Jeffries levers are round, Wheatstones are flat.
<Australian accent>Can you see what it is yet?</Australian accent>
c. Scates, Chidleys and Cases have strange type actions, search the history forum for example photos.
d. Joneses have ... (find those pictures!)
e. Nickolds have ... (find those pictures!)
etc,etc.....
I knew almost zero about actions before I joined c.net, so it is possible to learn your way around the makers here.

[wes williams]

Daniel Hersh, on Jun 16 2009, 11:51 PM, said:

Can you provide more of a clue as to where this info might be found? My searches turned up fishtail reeds, but no fishtail pivots.

Oh Ok then ..... here is a recent thread with some clues.

[malcolm clapp]

wes williams, on Jun 17 2009, 03:43 PM, said:

Levers and pivots (actions) are a very good guide to the maker, but there are always exceptions, so its never 100%.

You're not wrong there, Wes. I currrently have in my workshop, awaiting repairs, a Lachenal with (afaict original) rivetted action and also a Wheatstone with a rivetted action, but the levers are round. Hmmm.

As for the concertina in question, I know Richard Evans (who recently overhauled this one) often stamps his replacement handstraps with the name of the maker of the instrument, so he is presumably convinced that it is a Jeffries....


MC

[Stephen Chambers]

malcolm clapp, on Jun 18 2009, 10:59 AM, said:

wes williams, on Jun 17 2009, 03:43 PM, said:

Levers and pivots (actions) are a very good guide to the maker, but there are always exceptions, so its never 100%.

You're not wrong there, Wes. I currrently have in my workshop, awaiting repairs, a Lachenal with (afaict original) rivetted action and also a Wheatstone with a rivetted action, but the levers are round. Hmmm.

Malcolm,

I guess that's probably an Edeophone, with the rivetted action (you'd sometimes come across one), and cheaper grades of Wheatstone had those round-wire rivetted levers (very similar to Crabb or Jeffries ones).

[wes williams]

malcolm clapp, on Jun 18 2009, 10:59 AM, said:

As for the concertina in question, I know Richard Evans (who recently overhauled this one) often stamps his replacement handstraps with the name of the maker of the instrument, so he is presumably convinced that it is a Jeffries....

.. and we know that some of the earlier Jeffries had similarities with Jones made instruments. But a conclusion like that would need a very experienced eye and a full examination of the instrument. But all the hallmarks of a Jeffries or a Crabb is not correct in this case, especially the latter, IMHO, unless there is something else that we aren't being told about.

But my main purpose originally was to point out something that had all the hallmarks of a different manufacturer, and try to encourage folks to take a bit of time looking at pictures of actions.

[Lawrence Reeves]

I have an interest in owning a 26 key Jeffries, or Crabb someday. I want it for the sound, not as concerned on label. I suspect one that is fully stamped, and verified to be a true Jeffries such as the one here http://buttonbox.com/cau0532.html and in the key of Bb/ F extremely valuable. I on one hand understand the stigma of not being a full 30 or 38 keyed instrument, and not totally suitable for irish trad, etc... I however have an analogy to my own experience of keyed vs keyless flute. I can play so much music on a keyless instrument ( ie a 20 button concertina), and a 6 keyed concert flute is my norm. I have not found too many tunes that require me to play a low c or c#. The photo of the button box jeffries appears to have a slight offset on the third row, but not as great as the ebay item in question. I have been contimplating buying the one on ebay,and might do it anyway,as the word on the reeds are good.

[malcolm clapp]

Stephen Chambers, on Jun 18 2009, 07:52 AM, said:

malcolm clapp, on Jun 18 2009, 10:59 AM, said:

wes williams, on Jun 17 2009, 03:43 PM, said:

Levers and pivots (actions) are a very good guide to the maker, but there are always exceptions, so its never 100%.

You're not wrong there, Wes. I currrently have in my workshop, awaiting repairs, a Lachenal with (afaict original) rivetted action and also a Wheatstone with a rivetted action, but the levers are round. Hmmm.

Malcolm,

I guess that's probably an Edeophone, with the rivetted action (you'd sometimes come across one), and cheaper grades of Wheatstone had those round-wire rivetted levers (very similar to Crabb or Jeffries ones).

Absolutely correct on both counts.

MC