[Alan Day]

A nice looking Wheatstone English No 26546 is coming up for auction at Boldon Auctioneers Tyne & Wear (early June)
If it is as nice as it looks it is well worth the estimate.
I am only passing on the information however I am nothing to do with the sale.
Al

[Chris Drinkwater]

Alan Day, on May 25 2009, 07:06 PM, said:

A nice looking Wheatstone English No 26546 is coming up for auction at Boldon Auctioneers Tyne & Wear (early June)
If it is as nice as it looks it is well worth the estimate.
I am only passing on the information however I am nothing to do with the sale.
Al

Their auction catalogue states: A Wheatstone and Company concertina with pierced chrome ends, with 32 buttons to each end black leather bellows, numbered 26546, bears label with original case and receipt dated 7th March 1928 and photograph. According to the Horniman Ledgers, it is a model 19A, which is a 64 key Aeola tenor-extended treble model, dating from 1914, best period, and a relatively rare model. Their estimate of £800-1200, is far too low, in my opinion. £2000-£3000, would be more like the sort of money it should fetch. And, yes it does look nice.

Chris

[tzirtzi]

If anyone is interested in it, they also let you bid online -

http://www.boldon-au...mp;lot_id=54930

[Alan Day]

It is certainly amongst the loveliest looking concertinas I have seen.
Even assuming that this requires retuning,as it might and a few other things.What a lovely concertina you would have at the end of it.
Makes me wish I played the English looking at this one.
I would be grateful if someone would let me know what it goes for.
Al

[P Carr]

"64 key Aeola tenor-extended treble model"

Just to clarify, does this mean that the extra buttons / notes are at the bottom of the treble's range - that is, below the lowest G?

Thanks

[Robin Harrison]

No, at the top.....ie extended upwards. If it extends downwards, it becomes a baritone treble ( or tenor treble extended downwards)
Robin

[Alan Day]

tzirtzi, on May 27 2009, 03:31 AM, said:

If anyone is interested in it, they also let you bid online -

http://www.boldon-au...mp;lot_id=54930

Just for those who have never bid on an auction,it is possible to put in a pre auction bid to the amount you wish to go up to.
Just because you bid over the estimate it does not mean that the auctioneer starts at your bid.He should start below the lower estimate and start there, or if there are a number of pre auction bids he should start at the lowest of those bids and work up from there. I use this method of bidding at auction. You pre bid to the figure you intend to stop at and if it soars above that you are not tempted to go overboard with excessive bidding.On many occasions I have obtained the item I am bidding for below my top pre auction limit.
I agree with you Chris I think this is about a thousand pounds out (or more subject to condition).
Al

[JimLucas]

P Carr, on May 27 2009, 05:42 PM, said:

"64 key Aeola tenor-extended treble model"

Just to clarify, does this mean that the extra buttons / notes are at the bottom of the treble's range - that is, below the lowest G?

Robin Harrison, on May 27 2009, 06:46 PM, said:

No, at the top.....ie extended upwards. If it extends downwards, it becomes a baritone treble ( or tenor treble extended downwards)

Close, Robin.

This instrument extends both downward and upward from the standard 48-button treble.

The "tenor" part indicates that the lowest note is below the low G of the treble English, i.e., C below middle C. But the "treble" part indicates that the fingering in the treble range is identical to that of a stadard "treble". The "extended" in "extended treble" indicates that it extends above the standard 48-button treble pattern.

For what it's worth, I believe Wheatstone only used the "extended" modifier on "trebles" that extended upward, but not downward. I.e., in their price lists this 64-button instrument would simply have been described as "64-key tenor-treble".

A "baritone-treble", on the other hand, extends below the tenor-treble, but still retains the treble fingering in the treble range... as opposed to the standard "baritone", on which the same fingering as a treble sounds an octave lower. A 64-button tenor-treble has an additional row of notes below the treble pattern, and an additional row of notes above. A 64-button baritone-treble has the same top as the treble 48, and two additional rows below.

The above is a subset of the terminology that I've gathered from old Wheatstone price lists and ledgers. Various individuals use terminology that differs more or less from mine, but mostly outside the treble and baritone ranges. The redundant "extended" in the description of this instrument is a minor example. Geoff Crabb posted a terminology chart here on concertina.net that exhibits some of those differences, so quite possibly different makers coined their own terms for instruments that were outside the "norm". (My Lachenal bass, for instance, has a bottom note midway between the "bass" and "contrabass" on Wheatstone price lists. So I don't know what Wheatstone might have called that model, though I would be surprised if they never made one with that range.)

Have I confused you enough?

[tallship]

I'm not sure how popular this little beastie will be in the UK. Chris Algar has often bemoaned how unpopular the extended treble is compared to a standard 48 key treble and has failed to sell them on ebay on more than one occassion, it seems that the higher notes don't get played much here so all you get is a heavy treble.

Tenor/trebles are greatly sought after but I wouldn't be at all surprised if this one goes for quite a modest price unless a collector wants it. A heavy sixty four key tenor/treble that attracts bats isn't what most players are looking for, in this country at least.

It is pretty though...

[Alan Day]

A heavy sixty four key tenor/treble that attracts bats isn't what most players are looking for, in this country at least.

It is pretty though...
[/quote]
What a lovely thought,playing in the garden and suddenly loads of dancing bats appear.
Al

[Simon H]

Nice, though looking at the photos the nickel plating is pretty worn in places. The bellows aren't in their first prime, it may need bringing to modern pitch, as it doesn't look like its been opened. So someone bidding and getting it for say £2000 may be looking at another £500 plus to fettle it and then there is the auction 17.5 % commission so one could be shelling out the neck end of £2800 for an unheard instrument based on photos. I think I'd be heading for the saleroom first to see it in real life if I was interested in spending that sort of money... It is tempting though but I can imagine the reaction if that appeared through the post. "Why did you get another one?" "HOW MUCH?"

[Chris Drinkwater]

JimLucas, on May 27 2009, 06:21 PM, said:

Have I confused you enough?

No, although I nearly fell asleep reading it! Maybe you should write a dissertation, Jim?
FWIW, as I understand it, the standard tenor-treble has 56 keys and comprises four octaves, going from the C four notes below the bottom G on the standard treble, to C, four octaves above, and the 64 key model has four and half octaves, going from tenor C to the G four notes above top C. If not, then I am completely bats!
Chris

[tallship]

Alan Day, on May 27 2009, 10:27 PM, said:

What a lovely thought,playing in the garden and suddenly loads of dancing bats appear.
Al

Oddly enough we have a colony of bats living in the roof of our bungalow and at this time of year I often stand outside at dusk to watch them coming out to feed. The scary thing is that Sal can hear them 'talking' to each other. Not natural that; at least not from that standpoint of someone with 25 - 30% hearing loss like me.

[P Carr]

Quote

This instrument extends both downward and upward from the standard 48-button treble.

Thank you for that, Jim. Am I right in thinking that it's far more covetable for the extra lower notes than the extra upper notes, which may simply torment the dogs?

I won't be bidding, as I have a lovely treble - but just out of curiousity - will it be a lot heavier than a Wheatstone Aeola teble?

Lovely to look at though!

Pamela

[Boney]

Those high notes are harsh and tinny on their own, but adding them to a lower chord can add a lot of "sparkle" without any harshness. I'm surprised the high end isn't coveted more by chordal players. Is it difficult to reach those high notes simultaneously with a chord say, two or three octaves down?

[JimLucas]

Chris Drinkwater, on May 28 2009, 12:21 AM, said:

JimLucas, on May 27 2009, 06:21 PM, said:

Have I confused you enough?

No, although I nearly fell asleep reading it! Maybe you should write a dissertation, Jim?

The longer version can be found here.
(And you shouldn't neglect the rest of the thread.)

Chris Drinkwater, on May 28 2009, 12:21 AM, said:

FWIW, as I understand it, the standard tenor-treble has 56 keys and comprises four octaves, going from the C four notes below the bottom G on the standard treble, to C, four octaves above, and the 64 key model has four and half octaves, going from tenor C to the G four notes above top C. If not, then I am completely bats!

I believe that agrees with my description. So if you're not bats, what are you?

[JimLucas]

tallship, on May 28 2009, 12:39 AM, said:

Alan Day, on May 27 2009, 10:27 PM, said:

What a lovely thought,playing in the garden and suddenly loads of dancing bats appear.

Oddly enough we have a colony of bats living in the roof of our bungalow and at this time of year I often stand outside at dusk to watch them coming out to feed. The scary thing is that Sal can hear them 'talking' to each other. Not natural that....

Not really unnatural. I also have a friend who can hear the bats' voices. And on average, high-frequency hearing is more acute in women than in men, and in both it tends to decay with age.

My friend once visited me in my office, where I was working at an IBM computer terminal (long ago and far away). She had to leave immediately, because it was emitting a whine which caused her physical pain. And yet my ears couldn't detect that sound at all, no matter how hard I tried.

[JimLucas]

P Carr, on May 28 2009, 11:39 AM, said:

Quote

This instrument extends both downward and upward from the standard 48-button treble.

Am I right in thinking that it's far more covetable for the extra lower notes than the extra upper notes, which may simply torment the dogs?

In general, yes (except the bit about tormenting dogs). More people seem to desire the low notes. Some despise the high ones as "useless", but not me. I do use them, though admittedly not as much as the "normal" range.

P Carr, on May 28 2009, 11:39 AM, said:

I won't be bidding, as I have a lovely treble - but just out of curiousity - will it be a lot heavier than a Wheatstone Aeola teble?

It will be heavier, yes. More because of the additional low notes than the added high ones. (The low reeds are much bigger and heavier than the high ones, though the high ones do also require levers and pads. And the size is greater than a 48-button treble, so there's more wood and leather. But my 64-button tenor-treble Æola is the same size as my friend's 56-button one, so the body, bellows, and ends of those two weigh pretty much the same.) There have been posts in previous threads with weight comparisons. I don't have time to hunt them out now, but you could try to find them using the Search facility here.