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The Salvation Army Tutor for the English Concertina


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#37 Pete McLaughlin

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 04:32 PM

[/quote]
Surely it is his problem and those of you that want a copy should just be grateful and post your money off? Why ask?
[/quote]

Hi Dirge
An excellent question Dirge.
The point of the several previous posts is the question of the current status of the copyright. If Lesfix's copies are newer and have a more recent copyright than the 1935 date of the last known copyright for the Salvation Army then we have a problem in makeing copies available to everyone as a PDF file.
If he has already found that the copyright is expired then we are free to proceed with the digital format distribution.
And if he only has xeroxed copies of the origional then we are back to waiting for official word from the Salvation Army.

Sincerely,

Edited by Pete McLaughlin, 03 May 2009 - 04:34 PM.


#38 Leo

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 11:30 PM

I don't know for sure, but this might affect the request. It's from Amazon.com:
Product Details
# Unknown Binding: 55 pages
# Publisher: Salvationist Publishing & Supplies (1960)
# ASIN: B0000CVJL4
# Shipping Weight: 1.7 pounds

http://www.amazon.co.....IN=B0000CVJL4

If 1960 is the latest date, then? I'd still pursue the request just to get a definite answer to the question.

Thanks
Leo :unsure: :(

#39 TomB-R

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 02:29 AM

Okay, so matters of religion (and politics) should be kept off forums like this, but even if this book is legally out of copyright can I say don't forget the old Sally Army? (Particularly if you learn anything from their book.)

You may not agree with (or you may strongly disagree with) their religious stance, but they do a great job of helping people who no-one else would want to help or to have anything to do with.

Their international website is at
http://www.salvationarmy.org

Tom


Apols for quoting my own post folks, but I think the point continues to be relevant to this discussion.
(It would leave a bit of a bad taste if anyone makes money from selling copies of this book without giving anything to the Salvation Army, whatever the strict copyright position.)

Edited by TomB-R, 04 May 2009 - 02:33 AM.


#40 lesfix

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 07:09 AM

Having studied law for many years, I would naturally not wish to do anything unethical. Similarly, it would not seem quite right to have to reveal all my sources. Suffice it to say that I merely requested and received permission to photocopy a limited number of each of the tutors. Thus eletronic means was not an issue. Whilst I am "komputar littterate" too many breakdowns still occur in this infant medium - I still cherish the printed word! You see I live in Gloucester, U.K., (birthplace of Sir Charles Wheatstone) where the Government Commuications Headquarters (remember the Gen. Belgrano affair?) is just up the road. Cynics like my self blame them for all breakdowns in airwaves communications around here.

Incidentally, I do have connections, albeit remotely, with many contirbutors to the two tutors. Whilst living in Nottingham, I communicated with Herbert Hague, who contributed p. 28. He was at the time very ill, and his son, Alan, kindly invited me to his home for share concertina music. Whilst there on one occasion he introduced me to Reuben Shaw (p. 45 of the Richard Carlin Tutor), that doyen of concertina players. A gracious and encouraging gentleman, he frightened me when he honoured me by asking me to play aduet with him.

I did not know Henry Hall who contributed at least pp. 41 and 45, but his sister, who was a Salvation Army Officer, was at one time the wife of my Divisional Commander.

I did meet Eric Ball (in fact my parents knew his cousin extremely well) who used to accompnay Bram Thornett (see Triumph/Crane Tutor, p. 52) during his recordings. In fact Eric Ball was the Bandmaster at S.P.& S., the department that actually published the tutors.

Handel is referred to on many pages in both tutors. I cannot confess to knowing him, but each day during my college studies I would twice stroll along the Pantiles, where he was wont to promenade. Well, to be quite truthful, my return journey would quite frequently be by the quickest sprint in town, as after yet another detention, I dashed to catch my normal train home so my mother would no know of my latest misdemeanour. How I wished his mantle would fall on me, but alas, it never has.

Readers may know the 1936 ed., was a rehash/enlargement of the original 1924 original version (yes, I have a copy) attributed to Colonel Bristowe. His son Ralph was the long time and highly respected Bandmaster of the Nottingham William Booth Memorial Halls Band, with whom I at one time played.

Finally, thanks to Jeremy Hague for pointing out the Jenny Jones theme on p. 41. Somehow it never occurred to me before!

#41 Pete McLaughlin

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 10:38 AM

According to United States Copyright law the 1935 edition of the Salvation Army Tutor for English Concertina is still under copyright protection.
If anyone has an earlier edition than the year 1923 it would be in the public domain. later republishing of a document does not extend the copyright. only new additions to the material republished would be covered by a new copyright.

I found this information at this website: http://onlinebooks.l...du/okbooks.html

So we are waitig to see if halaluliajahAl! can get us permission to reproduce the book from the Salvation Army.

Keep your fingers crossed.

#42 Leo

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 11:34 AM

According to United States Copyright law the 1935 edition of the Salvation Army Tutor for English Concertina is still under copyright protection.
If anyone has an earlier edition than the year 1923 it would be in the public domain. later republishing of a document does not extend the copyright. only new additions to the material republished would be covered by a new copyright.

I found this information at this website: http://onlinebooks.l...du/okbooks.html

So we are waitig to see if halaluliajahAl! can get us permission to reproduce the book from the Salvation Army.

Keep your fingers crossed.

Hi Pete

I found that site also, and it led me to this page:
http://www.copyright.../public_domain/

Under this section: "Works Published Abroad Before 1978" I found 5 different conditions that might or might not apply in the US from "in the public domain" up to "95 years after publication date" (read the footnotes also). That is if it were published in the US at all, which I thought would needlessly complicate matters since we don't know, nor do we need to know since the question came up in the UK about a UK publication, and the UK laws apply. That's why I posted a simplified chart that only refers to the length only in the broadest terms.

The Amazon.com one I posted from 1960 has a reference on the page that says it's an import, so??????? Is/Was it available in the US in 1935??????? :blink:

Hopefully Al can convince them, if necessary, it's Ok to make PDF version for our use.

Thanks
Leo :blink:

#43 Guest_HallelujahAl!_*

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 06:16 AM

According to United States Copyright law the 1935 edition of the Salvation Army Tutor for English Concertina is still under copyright protection.
If anyone has an earlier edition than the year 1923 it would be in the public domain. later republishing of a document does not extend the copyright. only new additions to the material republished would be covered by a new copyright.

I found this information at this website: http://onlinebooks.l...du/okbooks.html

So we are waitig to see if halaluliajahAl! can get us permission to reproduce the book from the Salvation Army.

Keep your fingers crossed.

Hi Pete

I found that site also, and it led me to this page:
http://www.copyright.../public_domain/

Under this section: "Works Published Abroad Before 1978" I found 5 different conditions that might or might not apply in the US from "in the public domain" up to "95 years after publication date" (read the footnotes also). That is if it were published in the US at all, which I thought would needlessly complicate matters since we don't know, nor do we need to know since the question came up in the UK about a UK publication, and the UK laws apply. That's why I posted a simplified chart that only refers to the length only in the broadest terms.

The Amazon.com one I posted from 1960 has a reference on the page that says it's an import, so??????? Is/Was it available in the US in 1935??????? :blink:

Hopefully Al can convince them, if necessary, it's Ok to make PDF version for our use.

Thanks
Leo :blink:



TARA!!! (Trumpets or Concertinas Blazing)

Have speoken at some length with the powers that be in our copyright department and they ahve told me the following:

1. They have no objection to me arranging a pdf of the tutors to be made available on either concertina.net or concertina.com for free download by members of the public.

2. They are concerned, however, about a couple of remaining copyright issues and are looking into the issue of professionally bound copies being made for sale on the internet - which is, I am led to believe, an unlicensed act.

The corollary being however that you won't have to pay for it anyway as it'll be available for free download as soon as someone contacts me (and as soon as I can get things sorted).

I would suggest that all three tutors be placed within the same environment? Your comments.
AL

Edited by HallelujahAl!, 06 May 2009 - 06:18 AM.


#44 Hereward

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 06:50 AM

That is excellent news Al and thank you for your efforts here. I just know this tutor has something for me in it.

Ian

Edited by Hereward, 06 May 2009 - 08:11 AM.


#45 ghijze mitter hacken

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 07:35 AM

That is excellent news Al and thank you for your eforts here. I just know this tutor has something for me in it.

Ian


I agree and I'm looking forward to it.

#46 Larry Stout

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 09:15 AM

Thank you very much, Al. I'm looking forward to seeing the EC version since that's the instrument I play most often.

#47 Pete McLaughlin

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 10:00 AM

TARA!!! (Trumpets or Concertinas Blazing)

Have speoken at some length with the powers that be in our copyright department and they ahve told me the following:

1. They have no objection to me arranging a pdf of the tutors to be made available on either concertina.net or concertina.com for free download by members of the public.

2. They are concerned, however, about a couple of remaining copyright issues and are looking into the issue of professionally bound copies being made for sale on the internet - which is, I am led to believe, an unlicensed act.

The corollary being however that you won't have to pay for it anyway as it'll be available for free download as soon as someone contacts me (and as soon as I can get things sorted).

I would suggest that all three tutors be placed within the same environment? Your comments.
AL



This is most excellent work Al
i first thought that Concertina.com's library format would be good for the tutors but i have been trying to get ahold of them for a week with no success.
Since all the work was done here and Concertina.net is an active network site for concertina players and sellers i vote that we make them available at concertina.net.

setting them as a download under the "learning to play" heading of the concertina.net home page would be a good place for the tutors.

Sincerely,

Edited by Pete McLaughlin, 06 May 2009 - 10:03 AM.


#48 Pete McLaughlin

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 10:11 AM

I just sent this email to Paul Schwartz at concertina.net to get the dialog started.

"Mr. Schwartz
HallelujahAl! an officer in the Salvation Army has secured permission from the Salvation Army to post PDF copies of the Salvation Army tutors for the Concertina at concertina.net. This subject is being perused at the Teaching and Learning forum.
Can you get together with him to arrange for these books to be made available on the concertina.net home page. I think a download under the Learning to Play heading would be appropriate.

Thanks

Pete McLaughlin
Morse Albion #677"

#49 Paul Schwartz

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:19 PM

I just sent this email to Paul Schwartz at concertina.net to get the dialog started.

"Mr. Schwartz
HallelujahAl! an officer in the Salvation Army has secured permission from the Salvation Army to post PDF copies of the Salvation Army tutors for the Concertina at concertina.net. This subject is being perused at the Teaching and Learning forum.
Can you get together with him to arrange for these books to be made available on the concertina.net home page. I think a download under the Learning to Play heading would be appropriate.

Thanks

Pete McLaughlin
Morse Albion #677"


Sure, no problem. Once the PDF (or PDFs) get done, just email them to me (paul@concertina.net) and I'll be happy to post them for download on the site and link to them from the home page and Learning pages.

Thanks, and good work all!

Paul

#50 Guest_HallelujahAl!_*

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 02:11 AM

Hi Guys - have just emailed Paul a scanned pdf file of the English Tutor - quality not brillinat but I'm in need of some technical help on this front as my computer equipment as supplied by The Salvation Army is a bit Heath-Robinson! Anyway, I enclose for your info the email I have sent to Paul Schwartz:

>>Hi Paul, as per the discussion board I have been able to persuade The Salvation Army to allow us to post a pdf file of all their Tutors for the concertina (EC,Anglo & Triumph). In an effort to get this done asap I have very, very quickly just scanned through my copy of the EC Tutor and made a PDF file of it so that it can be made available straightaway. Unfortunately my scanner is pretty low quality - so please forgive the quality of the file - I am hoping that I can make a much higher definition file very soon. But this should keep us going pro temp.

The Salvation Army is keen to see that the tutors should be made freely available for public download. So thank you for agreeing to put these documents onto the teaching/learning section of the site. Please note that as soon as I can I will make available the files for the Anglo tutor and the Triumph (Duet) tutor as well as, hopefully, an improved version of the English tutor.

I am delighted that I have been able to be involved in making this material much more widely known and available. My hope, and prayer, is that the music within these tutors will be played again. I would also ask any concertina players who do download these files, not to forget their local Salvation Army centres who, around the globe, are doing a very fine job of sharing the gospel and undertaking works of compassion with the most poor and marginalised people in every society.

Thanks again & God Bless!
Captain Dr. Alex Cadogan
CO Chesterfield Corps - UK
The Salvation Army>>

So, Anglo & Triumph Tutors on the way as soon as I am able!
AL

#51 Ptarmigan

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 05:31 AM

Well done Al, your working well!

I'm certainly very glad I started this thread. ;)

Cheers
Dick

#52 P Carr

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 05:44 AM

Well done Al, your working well!

I'm certainly very glad I started this thread. ;)

Cheers
Dick


Thank you so much for this thread - and I so look forward to seeing the EC Tutor. What a good example of collective progress!

Pamela

#53 Leo

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 05:57 AM

Well done Al, your working well!

I'm certainly very glad I started this thread. ;)

Cheers
Dick

Hi Al

Exciting news! Thanks for your efforts
_____
Hi Dick

I'm glad you started the thread also

Thanks
Leo

#54 Pete McLaughlin

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 08:56 AM

Very Good Job HallelujahAl!

The Salvataion Army promoted the playing of the concertina for decades and so they developed the expertise in teaching new band members to play. I am happy to have that expertize available again in these training manuals.

Thank you Paul Schwartz for making the space available at Concertina.net

Sincerely



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