[Cruachan]

Hi everyone
I am interested in purchasing a concertina.
My musical preference is Celtic
I live in Alberta, Canada.
I worry about spending too much on an instrument that may end up collecting dust.
I am not likely to be performing concerts so don't think I really need a spiffy concertina.
From what I have browsed so far, I should be looking at 30 button Anglo G/D which are not as common.Yes/No?
There are a couple of companies in the US who sell concertinas under $200 which I am sure are made in China but does that mean they are junk? [sorry couldn't resist the pun]
Can anyone give me some ideas before my head explodes/
Thanks to all in advance

[Jewish Leprechaun]

As far as a cheaper concertina goes, you get what you pay for. If you're worried about a the concertina eventually collecting dust, buy a cheaper one and upgrade to a nicer one later on when you're sure it won't collect dust. If you end up not liking the concertina then you haven't lost much. I'm still playing a Rochelle, which is somewhere in the $300 price range. It works, it's gotten me to love the instrument, but naturally it isn't anything like a Suttner (my dream instrument ), or a Carroll (An easy substitute for my dream instrument ) (You can check these makers out on the buyer's guide), or any of the nicer instruments above a $1000.
Hope this helps,
Lep

[Daniel Hersh]

It may depend on what kind of "Celtic" music you plan to play. If you're referring to Irish traditional dance music (reels, jigs, etc.), most players who play that use a C/G Anglo, and the Rochelle from Concertina Connection is a C/G that's a good bet for a starter instrument. But if you're set on a G/D, you're right that there are no good options for a 30-button instrument in that price range.

Instrument quality isn't necessarily based on factory location -- the Rochelles are made in China. But you're right that the cheapest concertinas are Chinese-made and not very good. Some people here have managed to successfully get started on those concertinas, but the general consensus is that if you can come up with $340 US for a Rochelle (or Jackie English or Elise Hayden Duet from the same line) you'll be much better off.

Cruachan, on Apr 23 2009, 04:33 PM, said:

Hi everyone
I am interested in purchasing a concertina.
My musical preference is Celtic
I live in Alberta, Canada.
I worry about spending too much on an instrument that may end up collecting dust.
I am not likely to be performing concerts so don't think I really need a spiffy concertina.
From what I have browsed so far, I should be looking at 30 button Anglo G/D which are not as common.Yes/No?
There are a couple of companies in the US who sell concertinas under $200 which I am sure are made in China but does that mean they are junk? [sorry couldn't resist the pun]
Can anyone give me some ideas before my head explodes/
Thanks to all in advance

[Leo]

Hi Cruachan

Another advantage in the Rochelle, Jack, Elise from the Concertina Connection is that the manufacturer is close to Spokane Washington US. Easy to walk to. It's not very far. They stand behind their product, and also have a very good upgrade offer when the time comes. Here's their contact info: http://www.concertin...com/contact.htm

Spend some time and look around their site.

They are so much better than the cheap junk advertised. and if you don't take to it, chances are you can sell it fairly quickly for a much better price.

The Button Box in Massachusetts US has a service to rent concertinas. I don't know anything about it, or if they can across the border in Canada. They are a reputable company to do business with. Also take a good look at their in stock instruments as they just may have some used that would be in your price range (the rest of the site also): http://www.buttonbox...r-services.html

Thanks
Leo

This post has been edited by Leo: 24 April 2009 - 02:04 AM

[lawton_dave]

Cruachan, on Apr 23 2009, 07:33 PM, said:

Hi everyone
I am interested in purchasing a concertina.
My musical preference is Celtic
I live in Alberta, Canada.
I worry about spending too much on an instrument that may end up collecting dust.
I am not likely to be performing concerts so don't think I really need a spiffy concertina.
From what I have browsed so far, I should be looking at 30 button Anglo G/D which are not as common.Yes/No?
There are a couple of companies in the US who sell concertinas under $200 which I am sure are made in China but does that mean they are junk? [sorry couldn't resist the pun]
Can anyone give me some ideas before my head explodes/
Thanks to all in advance

I'd advise you to go for a 30 button C/G. This is the same as most Irish players (although there are some good players who play D/G). You can play in all keys on a 30 button C/G, just outside the two inside rows. Most instruction for ITM on the concertina is given for the C/G layout, both in books and in groups at festivals etc. Then you'll have to decide on the layout of the accidentals which is the third row. There are two options, basically a Jeffries layout or a wheatstone layout. This doesn't matter that much and someones preference usually depends on which concertina you manage to pick up first. Much has already been written on the forum about this so you can hunt the details pretty quickly.

Depending on budget.... my encouragement would be to hunt something like a second hand Tedrow or Edgley instrument. e.g here. These are commonly known as Hybrids, have the same mechanics of a good qualitiy concertina but with accordian reeds. Often Hybrids are better 'playing' instruments than older concertinas and a whole heap better than the cheap chinese stuff. So a great concertina with a bit of a different sound. There is a list somewhere, on a recent posting, on the current Hybrid concertina makers, maybe someone can point you to that list. Hybrids, although quite a bit more expensive are really worth while, as they are fun to play for many years, while the cheaper Chinese instruments soon lose their appeal.

In my opinion, a cheaper Chinese instrument will be more likley to gather dust due to to dissapointment it creates, and a better instrument such as a Hybrid will get you hooked.

Have fun!
Dave

[lawton_dave]

The C/G Rochelle mentioned above looks like a much cheaper alternative to a Hybrid and maybe a good place to start if you can't afford a Hybrid.
Although I've never seen one!
Dave

[Fergus_fiddler]

Jewish Leprechaun, on Apr 23 2009, 06:47 PM, said:

As far as a cheaper concertina goes, you get what you pay for. If you're worried about a the concertina eventually collecting dust, buy a cheaper one and upgrade to a nicer one later on when you're sure it won't collect dust. If you end up not liking the concertina then you haven't lost much. I'm still playing a Rochelle, which is somewhere in the $300 price range. It works, it's gotten me to love the instrument, but naturally it isn't anything like a Suttner (my dream instrument ), or a Carroll (An easy substitute for my dream instrument ) (You can check these makers out on the buyer's guide), or any of the nicer instruments above a $1000.
Hope this helps,
Lep

Indeed, the Suttners are really lovely boxes. I'm planning to keep playing my Morse and order meanwhile a Suttner... I tought to order the A2, but having into account the long waiting list - four years! - and that I'm going to spend a fortune in another concertina - poor wife - I think I'll go for the A4... I reckon that's the one played by Micheál O'Raghallaigh, isn't it?

Soon I'll post videos of my improvement on Youtube... Is amazing, don't know if it is because I've now a worthy box or the tunes stored in my head - perhaps both? - but I'm learning a lot faster on the 'tina that when I began on the fiddle

Cheers,

Fer

[drbones]

There's a Rochelle for sale a few threads down. (HERE) It looks like a good deal. I don't know if it's still available.
It's $275 as opposed to from $340 to $360 in some of the shops. Trouble is, you won't get the full cost trade in deal that some shops offer if you want to upgrade.
What to do, what to do??
In any case, if you buy a new one, try to determine which maker you might want to trade up to since you can only trade it up at the shop you bought it from. There are some serious price, and perhaps, maybe, quality differences.
Good luck.

This post has been edited by drbones: 24 April 2009 - 09:23 AM

[TomB-R]

Do you play any other instruments Cruachan?
(It makes a difference to your expectations!)

On a forum like this one tends to get advice saying, "don't waste your money on something cheap," or "you really need...."
I'm not saying that's wrong, but it's important to deal with what's possible. I think it's wonderful when one comes across battered old instruments with loads of signs of repair, use, damage, and repair. Maybe they were rubbish, but someone cared about them enough to want to keep playing. To my mind, the important thing is to get playing, (particularly if you're not already playing another instrument.)

If you have a nice concertina to play, and are a decent player, you'll pick up a cheapy and may think, "good grief, that's terrible!" Someone who is just starting doesn't have the skills to know that. In the first instance it's great to press one button and get a note, and then change something and get a different note.

If your preference is Anglo get something that'll start showing you where the pushes and pulls are.
I've got a fairly dreadful old wooden Hohner 20 button CSO (concertina shaped object.) The buttons stick and it's pretty dreadful in every way, but I still enjoy getting a tune out of it. Recently I played a more modern one that a friend had bought before heading towards English concertina. It was a lot better.

Mrs Crotty (look her up if you don't know) got a cheap German concertina from the local general store and went on from there.....

Start playing!

This post has been edited by TomB-R: 24 April 2009 - 09:41 AM

[CaryK]

Newbe,
I would not turn up your nose at a new or used 30 button Stagi either. Italian-made. More expensive than a Rochelle, but in my own opinion they play better and are much less expensive than new or used Tedrows, Edgleys, Morse's etc. Then again, Stagis are not in the same category as these hand made, better quality hybrids. A used or new Stagi from the Button Box will have been tuned correctly and checked out thoroughly so you can be sure it is playbable when you get it. I would not buy a Stagi that didn't come from Button Box. They do stand behind what they sell.

Anyway, its another alternative not mentioned previously on this thread.

[marien]

lawton_dave, on Apr 24 2009, 02:01 AM, said:

Most instruction for ITM on the concertina is given for the C/G layout, both in books and in groups at festivals etc. Then you'll have to decide on the layout of the accidentals which is the third row. There are two options, basically a Jeffries layout or a wheatstone layout. This doesn't matter that much and someones preference usually depends on which concertina you manage to pick up first. Much has already been written on the forum about this so you can hunt the details pretty quickly.....

In Ireland it's mostly the jeffries layout that's wanted, with C# on the outer row, right hand, both on push and on pull, the wheatstone layout doesn´t have that...

[Pgidley]

marien, on Apr 24 2009, 01:32 PM, said:

lawton_dave, on Apr 24 2009, 02:01 AM, said:

Most instruction for ITM on the concertina is given for the C/G layout, both in books and in groups at festivals etc. Then you'll have to decide on the layout of the accidentals which is the third row. There are two options, basically a Jeffries layout or a wheatstone layout. This doesn't matter that much and someones preference usually depends on which concertina you manage to pick up first. Much has already been written on the forum about this so you can hunt the details pretty quickly.....

In Ireland it's mostly the jeffries layout that's wanted, with C# on the outer row, right hand, both on push and on pull, the wheatstone layout doesn´t have that...

For a beginner it really doesn't matter, and is easy to adapt to later. Some of the best Irish players prefer the Wheatstone layout. I do believe Bob Tedrow has Rochelles in Jeffries tuning for a little bit extra though.

[Daniel Hersh]

I would add, though, that not everyone thinks that a Stagi Anglo is better than a Rochelle, despite the higher price. The only time that I compared them (and I don't know if I had a current Stagi in my hands or an earlier model) I thought that the tone and response were about equal in quality, but I found the placement of the air button on the Stagi much more awkward than on the Rochelle. So I'd personally recommend a Rochelle over a Stagi. On the other hand, if you decide to stick with your original plan to get a G/D Anglo, Stagi makes a G/D and there's no G/D Rochelle.

CaryK, on Apr 24 2009, 09:29 AM, said:

Newbe,
I would not turn up your nose at a new or used 30 button Stagi either. Italian-made. More expensive than a Rochelle, but in my own opinion they play better and are much less expensive than new or used Tedrows, Edgleys, Morse's etc. Then again, Stagis are not in the same category as these hand made, better quality hybrids. A used or new Stagi from the Button Box will have been tuned correctly and checked out thoroughly so you can be sure it is playbable when you get it. I would not buy a Stagi that didn't come from Button Box. They do stand behind what they sell.

Anyway, its another alternative not mentioned previously on this thread.

[Cruachan]

You guys are great, so many replies and tons of advice and opinions.
Thank you very much for your input.
I have not arrived at a final decision but I will definitely be more comfortable making the commitment when the time comes.
I will be back to let you know whether it was a boy or a girl when the big day arrives

[Gan Ainm]

Daniel Hersh, on Apr 24 2009, 07:37 PM, said:

I would add, though, that not everyone thinks that a Stagi Anglo is better than a Rochelle, despite the higher price. The only time that I compared them (and I don't know if I had a current Stagi in my hands or an earlier model) I thought that the tone and response were about equal in quality, but I found the placement of the air button on the Stagi much more awkward than on the Rochelle. So I'd personally recommend a Rochelle over a Stagi. On the other hand, if you decide to stick with your original plan to get a G/D Anglo, Stagi makes a G/D and there's no G/D Rochelle.

Kitty Hayes played a Stagi G/D right up until just before she recorded the 'A Touch of Clare' CD and she got really great music from it. She played it regularly on Sunday nights in Gleesons of Coore and I think she was still playing the Stagi the first few times she played on stage at the Willie Clancy Concertina night in Miltown Malbay.

A G/D can seem like a logical choice to someone starting out to play Irish music, since G and D are popular keys at many Irish music sessions. Starting out on a G/D means that your tunes in G will be an octave lower than most other people at the session and that if/when you decide to switch to a C/G, the tunes you learned in D will now be in G, the tunes you learned in G will now be in C and you will need to learn new fingering to play in D. Of course, you don't have to switch to a C/G and, if you do, you will have a collection of tunes in C as a nice bonus, as indeed was the case with Kitty.

[CaryK]

Daniel Hersh, on Apr 24 2009, 03:37 PM, said:

I would add, though, that not everyone thinks that a Stagi Anglo is better than a Rochelle, despite the higher price. The only time that I compared them (and I don't know if I had a current Stagi in my hands or an earlier model) I thought that the tone and response were about equal in quality, but I found the placement of the air button on the Stagi much more awkward than on the Rochelle. So I'd personally recommend a Rochelle over a Stagi. On the other hand, if you decide to stick with your original plan to get a G/D Anglo, Stagi makes a G/D and there's no G/D Rochelle.

I would agree with Daniel's assessment of the Stagi's air button. I found its placement wasn't the problem, but the extension of the hand rest below the air button and the height of that extension was a problem. When playing for a long time the side of my thumb would get sore pressing against that extension while using the air button. Other than that I found the Stagi much easier to play than the Rochelle, though I somewhat preferred the Rochelle's sound. Stagi also a more visually appealing instrument IMO. Anyway, good luck with your decision, I'm sure you'll enjoy whatever you buy.

[Mark Taylor]

Cruachan,

Salute the Maple Leaf and call Frank Edgley!

Mark