104 replies to this topic

[MatthewVanitas]

I see they also have a 6-button concertina for 110 SFr. Though the "100 individual parts" sounds a little complicated. If it's a basic "a monkey with a screwdriver and some wood glue" I'd be willing to give it a shot, just not sure how idiot-proof such a 'box would be.

Count me among those very curious as to whether their mini-bandoneon could be had in Hayden. Of course, we'd have to have some idea of the quality, components, price, etc. Anyone speak German and want to drop them a line? Is the fingering on the mini they show in the pic close enough to a slanted Wicki to be playable by a Haydenist?


EDIT: Apparently the free-reeders at Chiffboard looked into this just a month back, and the overall conclusion is that Untersees, while very nice, are quite pricey, and the company has little interest in the export market.

http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=74168&sid=0d4e2d7c3f07c006669c25f3bfc26300

Edited by MatthewVanitas, 04 May 2010 - 05:41 AM.

[MatthewVanitas]

Did a little more bandoneon digging, in case folks want to consolidate a few bandoneon links here rather than start a new thread:

• Harry Geuns (http://www.bandonion.com/). Hybrid semi-offshore bisonorics as low as $975, student zinc-reed models starting at €1800. Looking into feasibility of producing Hayden bandoneones. Also English, Baritone English, and Anglo concertinas.
  
• Klaus Gutjahr (http://www.klausgutjahr.de/) From 72 to 76 key in several systems. Starting at €2950
  
• Bandonion & Concertina Factory Klingenthal (http://www.bandonion-carlsfeld.de/) - Concertinas and bandoneons in a variety of systems, from 55 to 75 buttons, all with zinc reeds. No prices listed, but I sent them an email asking their base prices, and whether they'd consider Hayden/Wicki fingering with enough orders
  
• Hartenhauer Bandoneonbau (http://www.bandoneon-hartenhauer.de/) From 55 to 71 button. Starting at €2940
  
• Untersee Akkordeonwerkstatt (http://www.akkordeon...h/bandoneon.htm), 64-button chromatic "minibandoneon"
  
• Stagi, 75-button bisonorics and chromatics

Edited by MatthewVanitas, 06 May 2010 - 02:46 AM.

[Daniel Hersh]

Did a little more bandoneon digging, in case folks want to consolidate a few bandoneon links here rather than start a new thread:

• Harry Geuns (http://www.bandonion.com/). Hybrid semi-offshore bisonorics as low as $975, student zinc-reed models starting at €1800. Looking into feasibility of producing Hayden bandoneones. Also English, Baritone English, and Anglo concertinas.
  
• Klaus Gutjahr (http://www.klausgutjahr.de/) From 72 to 76 key in several systems. Starting at €2950
  
• Bandonion & Concertina Factory Klingenthal (http://www.bandonion-carlsfeld.de/) - Concertinas and bandoneons in a variety of systems, from 55 to 75 buttons, all with zinc reeds. No prices listed, but I sent them an email asking their base prices, and whether they'd consider Hayden/Wicki fingering with enough orders
  
• Hartenhauer Bandoneonbau (http://www.bandoneon-hartenhauer.de/) From 55 to 71 button. Starting at €2940

Thanks, Matthew. FYI, I just remembered that Stagi makes bandoneons too.

[SqueezeCat]

They also make Bandoneons with chromatic button accordion fingering on both sides! I will have to ask if they can make me a custom Wicki (Hayden) accordion...Kaspar Wicki was Swiss after all!

Any word as to whether Akkordeon-Werkstatt are interested in putting together a Wicki-Hayden instrument?

[MatthewVanitas]

Any word as to whether Akkordeon-Werkstatt are interested in putting together a Wicki-Hayden instrument?

Agreed that their 46-key minibandoneon seems to have key spacing/interval awfully close to Wicki/Hayden...

Though I did also notice that several of the other bandoneon makers offer systems which also have a staggered-line layout which might not be unduly hard to reed to Hayden, though at some premium: http://www.inart.de/...rgentinisch.htm

Not that I wish ill upon Europe, but if the Greek troubles bring the Euro down closer to the dollar I could see my interest in bandoneons surging...

EDIT: checked in on Klingenthal retail prices, found a shop selling the "142/II/II Rheinisache Tonlage" for €3.940,00. So still not particularly inexpensive... The eventual Concertina Connection Hayden mid-grade hybrid (slated for 2011) appears to be the most likely next Hayden to hit the market.

Edited by MatthewVanitas, 06 May 2010 - 02:19 PM.

[Daniel Hersh]

This thread just passed 20,000 views, so I guess it's been useful. Thanks very much to everyone who has contributed to it, and thanks in advance for future contributions!

Daniel

[m3838]

http://www.inart.de/...rgentinisch.htm

I talked to Harry some years ago and while it is possible to just take standard Bandoneon and convert it to anything, from English to Hayden, button spacing for Hayden seems to limit the range. You'll end up with pretty large instrument with only 5 octaves combined (with no overlap).
Still pretty attractive given quality and octave tuned voice, but I'd be concerned with the range. One major attractioin in large Hayden box is availability of all sharps and flats, making it regular. It brings up the weight and size. So again, we are looking at very large instrument with limited octave range. These are tightly connected for Hayden.
Regularity (coming from having all accidentals) is only relevant when there is enough range to cover the higher/lower keys. Although C# is only half tone up from C and probably is well covered even without all the black keys, key of F is 5 tones down from C, but only has Bb as natural. Still, one needs Hayden with enough range to cover that Bb scale all the way down. With only 2/5 octaves in the left it is going to be compromised.
I think the most logical scenario is what Harry is going to do: design Hayden from scratch.
P.S.
Looks like there is great interest in Bandoneons among concertina community.

[Takayuki YAGI]

Student/Basic [built with accordion reeds mounted on accordion-style reed blocks]
Beschäftigungsgesellschaft Klingenthal, also known as Schaumanufaktur Klingenthal [sold under the names Silvetta, Castiglione, and perhaps others]

Found a broken link to Klingenthal, but I could not find proper one.

Cheers,
--
Taka

[Daniel Hersh]

Student/Basic [built with accordion reeds mounted on accordion-style reed blocks]
Beschäftigungsgesellschaft Klingenthal, also known as Schaumanufaktur Klingenthal [sold under the names Silvetta, Castiglione, and perhaps others]

Found a broken link to Klingenthal, but I could not find proper one.

Cheers,
--
Taka

Thanks, Taka. I can't find one either, but I did find this article from April which seems to indicate trouble for the firm. I hope that they or a successor are still making concertinas. Castiglione and Hartenhauer still show their instruments on their own sites, but they may be out of date or selling off their existing inventory.

Does anyone know any more about this?

[Daniel Hersh]

Student/Basic [built with accordion reeds mounted on accordion-style reed blocks]
Beschäftigungsgesellschaft Klingenthal, also known as Schaumanufaktur Klingenthal [sold under the names Silvetta, Castiglione, and perhaps others]

Found a broken link to Klingenthal, but I could not find proper one.

Cheers,
--
Taka

Thanks, Taka. I can't find one either, but I did find this article from April which seems to indicate trouble for the firm. I hope that they or a successor are still making concertinas. Castiglione and Hartenhauer still show their instruments on their own sites, but they may be out of date or selling off their existing inventory.

Does anyone know any more about this?

Looks like their web site is back up now, so I guess they're still around or back in business.

[Takayuki YAGI]

Thanks Daniel.

By the way, I just notice that the latest Hobgoblin catalogue (autumn/winter 2010 edition) lists Sherwood Student 30Key Anglo C/G.
It says:

• Italian reeds,
• metal ends,
• black plastic button,
• leather bellows,
• made to our design under licence in China
• GR4716 CH ￡469.00

I am not sure whether it is a Student/Basic concertina or a Hybrid/Mid-range/Intermediate one, though.

Cheers,
--
Taka

[Daniel Hersh]

By the way, I just notice that the latest Hobgoblin catalogue (autumn/winter 2010 edition) lists Sherwood Student 30Key Anglo C/G.
It says:

• Italian reeds,
• metal ends,
• black plastic button,
• leather bellows,
• made to our design under licence in China
• GR4716 CH ￡469.00

I am not sure whether it is a Student/Basic concertina or a Hybrid/Mid-range/Intermediate one, though.

It doesn't seem to be on their web site yet - at any rate, I wasn't able to find it there. I'd guess it as student/basic since it's called "Student" and it's priced in the same general range as a Stagi. I may wait for it to get onto their web site before I add it to the list.

[Stephen Chambers]

By the way, I just notice that the latest Hobgoblin catalogue (autumn/winter 2010 edition) lists Sherwood Student 30Key Anglo C/G.
It says:

• Italian reeds,
• metal ends,
• black plastic button,
• leather bellows,
• made to our design under licence in China
• GR4716 CH ￡469.00

I am not sure whether it is a Student/Basic concertina or a Hybrid/Mid-range/Intermediate one, though.

It doesn't seem to be on their web site yet - at any rate, I wasn't able to find it there. I'd guess it as student/basic since it's called "Student" and it's priced in the same general range as a Stagi. I may wait for it to get onto their web site before I add it to the list.

The description reads a lot like a Chinese made version of the Sherwood Anglo to me - could be interesting!

[ceemonster]

whoa, i see the "accordion workshop" elves consider weight reduction and optimizing compactness a mission.....my own personal holy grail as well....love those compact cba models....

Edited by ceemonster, 28 October 2010 - 06:53 PM.

[mory]

I was having a look at the All About Accordions site and saw this note about their "Garvey" Anglo....

I WILL HAVE A NEW GARVEY CONCERTINA AVAILABLE IN MARCH WHICH WILL BE A MID RANGE CONCERTINA,USING SUTTNER PARTS INCLUDING BUTTONS /LEVERS ETC.ITS IN PRODUCTION AT THE MOMENT

This concertina at euro800 is best described as a very good and well designed student model with nothing to compete with it only the mid range concertinas like the Morse or the Dublin concertina or AC Norman.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with this - particularly if it's got Suttner parts.

On their second-hand page they also have "Garvey" Anglos - 6 months old for 725 Euros. No mention of Suttner parts, so presumably this is a previous design?

See this thread for discussion of what you refer to as the "previous design".

[mory]

I spoke with Sean a short while ago, his new concertina I believe is the Dubliner, different to the Garvey and although it uses TAM accordion reeds they have brass frames, the concertinas are made by his son, I think they are developing a high end one as well, which is probably where the Suttner parts come in.

[rayhomewood]

A nice and useful list, Dan

[Mike Maddux]

Re the bandoneons sold by Akkordeon-Werkstatt:

They seem to offer a full-size bandoneon as well as the "mini", with a choice of traditional bisonoric or unisonoric. What they DON'T seem to show is the button layout on their chromatic bandos (regular or mini), and they don't seem to be very fast about answering email requests. Does anyone have a diagram of that layout?

It's intriguing to me because the shape of the array (8 x 5) doesn't seem to fit a standard chromatic button accordion approach. Well actually it could be a five row C or B system with only two octaves - not too exciting compared to a standard bandoneon of more than three octaves in the right hand.

Thanks,

Mike