[michael sam wild]

I've just rooted out an old Folkways LP from my shelves, from 1973 , a re-release of old 78s from 1930s to 1950s.
Great insert (sleeve) notes by Reg Hall.

Does anyone know if Reg has published a book or monograph? I know he did a PhD on Irish Music in England.

I grew up with old 78s and then as a young teenager I used to go with my Dad to Irish sessions in Manchester in the Ardwick and Longsight areas, mainly on Stockport Road, in the 50s before I came to Sheffield to University and then I used to get down to London on my old Norton motorbike in the 60s and 70s whenever I could; but what with bringing up a family and the distance from Sheffield I could never get to know people too well, so no floors to kip on. There and back with a box on the tank was quite demanding.

In the late 60s and mid 70s we had a good session scene in Leeds and Sheffield when Irish lads came to work on the motorways ( M1 and M62). That's when I really got stuck into tunes and this LP was my gold standard along with Jackie Daly, Mick Mulcahy and the Free Reed LPs., Then the Bothy Band etc came out and we all went doolally. Now I'm reassessing it all and I find myself going back to the source, Mullaly, Paddy Murphy, Drony , Mrs Crotty, etc etc.

Any info on Reg Hall's work would be welcome

Mike

[Paul Groff]

Hi Mike,

I'm sure you know about Reg's work with the Scan Tester recordings. He has published some great research over the years.

The LP you mention was re-released as a cd some years back. I agree with you that the original LP is priceless and so is the cd -- in fact, since each has tracks that the other lacks it is worth having both. IIRC the LP has two tracks each from the original Ballinakill Traditional Dance Players and the Belhavel Trio, the cd only one.... but the new tracks added to the cd are also lovely, as are the new notes with great pictures.

PG

[Roger Digby]

Reg has also compiled 'Round the House and Mind the Dresser' TSCD606 and 'Past Masters of Irish Fiddle Music' TSCD 605 which are wonderful selections of similar music, mostly from old 78s. Ron Kavana's compilation, 'I'm Leaving Tipperary' CDORBD 082, offers a further selection from American recordings of the 20s and 30s. All three well-worth having in my view.
And then there's all the old vinyl that's been unavailable for decades and looks like staying that way for the foreseeable future.
I find the recordings of this period much more attractive than their modern counterparts.
Roger

[Paul Groff]

Not to mention the old LP "Paddy in the Smoke," which I think was released on cd in at least two versions ("Paddy in the Smoke" and "In the Smoke"). Great recordings of Bobby Casey, Martin Byrnes and many more with great sleeve notes -- and steady uncluttered piano driving -- from Mr. Hall.

PG

[Roger Digby]

'Paddy In the Smoke' was reissued with some extras as TSCD603. The cover photo was taken outside The Favourite, (now demolished to make way for Arsenal's new stadium) where Reg Hall was the resident piano player for many years and where Jimmy Power and Paddy Malyn lead the Sunday lunchtime session when I was a regular there in the 70s. 'In The Smoke' CDORBD 088 is another Ron Kavana compilation, with little or no duplication of the former old LP. The cover of 'In the Smoke' shows a different Favourite also in North London but with no musical heritage as far as I know. Bit of a clanger I think!
The difference between these CDs and the ones that sparked off this discussion is that the 'Smokes' are later recordings of musicians active in London at the time, not reissues of 78s.
I recommend all these CDs unreservedly to anyone who likes their Irish Music 'in the old style' - to borrow Reg Hall's very useful phrase!
Roger

[Paul Groff]

Hi Roger,

Thanks for the clarification and sorry if I confused anyone. Unfortunately most of my cds are boxed up and inaccessible to me right now so it is sometimes hard to check these things.

I agree that there is something special about all the recordings we have discussed in this thread, starting with Mike's excellent choice. Even when the players were technically brilliant (as many on these recordings were) there is a fearlessness and sometimes a rough texture that may seem unfamiliar to new listeners. The more you listen to these the more you will hear. I think the priorities for these musicians were rhythm, phrasing, expressiveness, and a tension between respect for the tradition they received and their own boldness in personalizing it. Many musicians working today seem to be communicating something else.... or maybe the music has just undergone a shift in dialect that makes the same meanings less intelligible to those of us who are older.

Some traditional-music historians (of all kinds of traditional music) distinguish the sounds made by the earliest musicians recorded in the twentieth century from those made by later musicians who had come to understand and learn from recorded music. There is an idea out there that a kind of "mistake avoidance," (among other differences) may have taken root among many professional musicians that risks robbing the music of its power and spontaneity. IMO the situation is complicated and gradated with many traditional musicians right up to the present learning and playing most of their music "live," and also with some truly great 20th century musicians being highly influenced by recordings. More important may be that the standards and expectations of some of the audience (and dancers where there still are such) for dance music may have changed, pulling musicians in certain directions if they are to be "successful."

Roger, there still are great, spontaneous and fearless musicians playing all kinds of traditional music. Even some great recordings of them are still being made. But these may struggle to find an audience today, with so many listeners (today's "market" for traditional music?) accustomed to highly glossy production, modern intonation, sweet flawless technical surfaces, and less understanding of the deep gutsy dance rhythms and phrasing that were at the heart of "great honest music even when rough."

PG

[Leo]

Hi

Is this the same Reg Hall mentioned?
http://www.youtube.c...IZVFFefA&fmt=22

Thanks
Leo

[Roger Digby]

Yes, that's Reg (with Jinky Wells' fiddle). The other fiddler is Ian Salter; Will Duke on Anglo (not Scan's on this occasion); Ken Lees Banjo: Simon Ritchie Percussion. Reg started a weekly Trad music programme on Resonance - Thursday 2 p.m. I think - and presented it for a while. Simon took it over and for all I know may still be the anchor. I think the Resonance website gives a link to an on-line broadcast. This was a live session!! Apparently the rehearsal at lunchtime in the pub went really well but when they got into the studio..............!

Roger

[PeterT]

Roger Digby, on Jan 28 2009, 12:26 AM, said:

.... but when they got into the studio..............!

Sounds like the studio acoustics are all wrong; far too "bright".

By the way, is Reg Hall still in Croydon? I used to see him, occasionally, at an Irish music venue.

Regards,
Peter.

[Hereward]

PeterT, on Jan 28 2009, 05:16 AM, said:

Roger Digby, on Jan 28 2009, 12:26 AM, said:

.... but when they got into the studio..............!

Sounds like the studio acoustics are all wrong; far too "bright".

By the way, is Reg Hall still in Croydon? I used to see him, occasionally, at an Irish music venue.

Regards,
Peter.

You are right about the acoustics and I am often surprised that so-called experts seem so bad at this. Sometimes the BBC have bands on the television and the sound engineer doesn't have a clue.

I couldn't do better but I have ears and can tell when someone can't either.

Ian

[michael sam wild]

michael sam wild, on Jan 26 2009, 08:34 PM, said:

I've just rooted out an old Folkways LP from my shelves, from 1973

Actually it all seems like yesterday and when I put on my LPs and 78s I can usually remember the details of where I was and what we were doing. Great! Life all over again in your dotage!

I agree with Paul about 'going for it' We used to say in our dance band, which was not one for rehearsing but choosing a set from our pool of knowledge , when asked for a particular set by the caller or MC, 'See you at the end!' if the dancers wanted it changed they'd shout out what they wanted or needed.It was very stimulating and driven along by a few jars all round. I always felt the musicianers were there to serve the dancers who paid the money. We often played the same tune over and over and it got better fitted to the dance and yielded variations etc.

The best do's were for people who knew the dances and just wanted the tunes under their feet. Weddings were usually great fun and little kids and their grannies would always get up and dance before adults lids ( little lads ran around being aeroplanes and sllding on their knees as ever) .

Very little lads would stare in wonder, jig up and down and grasp their willies. One little lad said ' wot you doin? You're makin' my bones all loose! Success!

The most boring ( but necessary for many) for a musician were the ones where a 'caller' had to teach them and walk them through etc etc. Many 'dances for dancers' were often no more than people who walked intricate figures to some background music without any 'oomph'. We used to call them 'refugees from the disco', Playford or 'Jane Austen' dances in costume being the worst! But whatever turns you on, They often used to quibble about paying the band at the end if they made no money on the door, and next time used records, but they always made sure they got their refreshments and paid for the hall before paying us!

As a young man going to dances I expected to know the dance or at least its general shape and time and just be turned on by great players, whatever kind of dancing. When I went climbing in the 50s and 60s we went to village hops on Saturday night all over England, Wales and Scotland and occasionally Ireland and mixed trad and bopping with old time ballroom dancing using the same criteria.


Mike

This post has been edited by michael sam wild: 28 January 2009 - 10:23 AM

[michael sam wild]

michael sam wild, on Jan 26 2009, 08:34 PM, said:

I've just rooted out an old Folkways LP from my shelves, from 1973 , a re-release of old 78s from 1930s to 1950s.
Great insert (sleeve) notes by Reg Hall.

Does anyone know if Reg has published a book or monograph? I know he did a PhD on Irish Music in England.

Mike

I've just seen on The Session that Reg has been awarded The Musicians Award at TG4 for 2009 and he is giving a lecture The History of Irish Music in London on Saturday 14 february at the Elstree Holiday Inn as part of CCE in Britain annual Convention. Sadly i can't make it, hope he does a transcript.

http://www.thesessio...n/display/20564

http://irishmusicmag...ug/tracking.htm

Mike

[michael sam wild]

Did anybody get to the recent London talk?
Mike

[michael sam wild]

Sorry Peter, I can't access it from your link, can you give we an http quote?
Mike

[Mayofiddler]

No my first attempt didn't work

Try this

That link seems to work if you press the play button, it didn't start automatically for me.

This post has been edited by Mayofiddler: 20 February 2009 - 10:38 AM

[michael sam wild]

Thanks! That takes me back. My dad and I worked on sites in the late fifties and early sixties.

You don't see many guys with turned down wellies (wellington boots) any more! My dad was a steel erector and climbed scaffolds and girders in rubber wellies. They all wear rigger boots now. As Billy Connolly observed the rubber wellies were great for keeping in the smell of sweaty feet in nylon socks! 'If it wasnae for the sake o' yer wellies' to the tune of 'The wark o' the weavers.'

I'm sure the music of the emigrants helped keep Irish traditional music alive and fed back from Britain to Ireland.

This post has been edited by michael sam wild: 22 February 2009 - 12:50 PM