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#1 goran rahm

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Posted 26 August 2003 - 01:47 AM

Hello All of You!

Just a short welcome to everyone...all by sudden finding that I will do my best to be your host in a forum section for concertina related ergonomics.

Some of you probably relate 'ergonomics' to physcial problems and various ways to cure them and this certainly is part of the field but in a wider sense it means all aspects in optimizing a work system by adapting it to human capacities and needs.

I propose we start by setting up a little inventory regarding what sort of issues and problems YOU believe could be of interest in this section from a general view...
individual problems will certainly come up sooner or later but let us for a while focus on what expectations are realistic in this discussion forum and the best ways to deal with them.
Suggestions?

Goran Rahm

#2 Jim Besser

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Posted 27 August 2003 - 07:29 AM

I know we've been through a lot of this over the years, but I'd be interested in some concentrated discussion about how concertina players with repetitive stress injuries cope: exercises, devices like arm straps, playing techniques that help. And what to avoid, in terms of playing. I'd be happy to share what I've learned after 2 rounds of physical therapy, 1 of chiropractic and a lot of trial and error.

#3 goran rahm

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 02:24 PM

Reply to Jim.
Yes, I agree...reports from many players could form a catalogue of possible problems firstly serving us as indicators of causes of discomfort or inefficiency and starting from that hopefully we could discuss what there is to do about it.....firstly in general terms...

When it comes to specific therapeutic methods however my own approach is that this seldom is appropriate in a public forum since treatment of individual health problems usually demand direct knowledge of the individual which is hard to achieve on a public basis. This is a reason that medical 'Readers' Queries' seldom are successful except when restricted to general advise.
This does not exclude the fact that many readers may enjoy and feel comfort in reading them but the expectations to be helped may be overestimated.

So.. please do report any kinds of problems you have experienced and by all means of course the various methods or ways of treatment that have helped or failed but I propose that for the moment we do not suggest others to practise the same 'cure' unless a profound analysis has been carried out.
Jim, what are your experiences?

#4 duckln

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 12:06 PM

There is an Aeola on Ebay #33622. In the Wheatstone Ledgers it is
noted to have 'rails' and 'duet straps'. Until now the only straps I am
familiar with are shoulder and wrist straps.
Any idea how 'rail' and 'duet straps' work out if added ,to say, an Edeophone.
My Edeo gives me more of a workout than my Aeola. IMO a wrist strap would
save the thumbs on the pull.
Joe

#5 goran rahm

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 12:58 PM

"My Edeo gives me more of a workout than my Aeola. IMO a wrist strap would
save the thumbs on the pull.
Joe "

Hello Joe,
Please tell me what models exactly are the instruments respectively? Generally speaking Edeophone englishes often have the attachment more eccentric than Aeolas which may increase the load on the thumbs but there are many variants. In my opinion the function of 'traditional' wriststraps is somewhat dubious. (You have read my articles on handle arrangements? :-)
Common size trebles of either make can offer great problems as well as some comfort when provided with wristsstraps...all depending on individual use and needs. The first crucial factor is if you play sitting or standing and particularly in the later case at what level the instrument is held. Another one is if optimal 'fingering' or optimal 'bellowsing' is your first choice...you can not have both.....
Goran

#6 duckln

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 02:15 PM

Goran

Both the Aeola and the Edeophone are 6 fold, 48, trebles.
I usually practice sitting down, most of the time with the concertina
suspended between both legs. Most enjoyable position as I can
'swing' the concertina a bit and let gravity help on the close at
proper times. It feels good and is an eyecatcher.

Someone, on the old forum mentioned a concertina player, playing an english
on Moby Dick, the movie. I ordered the movie, and was encouraged
as this guy really swings it aound. I don't recall the players' name, but
an 'audio' of his was also posted (linked) on Concertina.net recently.

I play about 1 1/2 hours a day and haven't been
physically stressed for a long time. I can do this with the Aeola
days on end, but only a few days on the Edeo. Could be stiffer
bellows or playing louder on the Edeo in that the tone seems nicer.

However, my first post was for comments on the Ebay Aeola
http://cgi.ebay.com/...item=2558958327
&category=16218
Seems that the mention of 'rails' and 'duet straps', that someone
in 1935 ordered a Aeola that included 'finger straps', pinky rest'
and Duet style 'wrist straps'.
Does anyone know what a 'rail' is?

Joe

#7 goran rahm

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Posted 18 September 2003 - 04:33 AM

Joe,
concerning the "rails" see my comment in the specific thread on General discussions.

Concerning your own playing as you play mostly seated and the two instruments are fairly alike I can only guess that some factors are involved:

1) the Edeo IS generally more unstable than the Aeola due to more flexible bellows ( 12 sides instead of 8) but individal bellows may differ a lot an even out the difference or make it reverse...)
This instability causes more load on the thumbs
2) The 48 key treble Edeo is expected like I said to have the thumbstrap and finger rest a little bit further 'down' than the Aeola. Check for yourself if this is the case. If so that also causes more load for the thumbs to stabilize the situation.
3) If resting the instruments on the knee/thighs the rounder Edeo will be a little apt to roll about causing more need for stabilisation also

Common type wriststraps can relieve the thumbs from some of their strain on pull even when seated but the best situation may be reached by adding some kind of support for the wrist/palm/base of the thumb and the "rails" spoken about not unlikely is such an attempt.

#8 Jim Besser

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Posted 22 September 2003 - 07:15 PM

[So.. please do report any kinds of problems you have experienced and by all means of course the various methods or ways of treatment that have helped or failed but I propose that for the moment we do not suggest others to practise the same 'cure' unless a profound analysis has been carried out.
Jim, what are your experiences?]

Bad tennis elbow/carpel tunnel. Caused, apparently, by keyboarding all day, but seriously aggravated by playing concertina and guitar. Kept under control through medical intervention, stretching, exercise, and trying to brace the concertina whenever possible (but hard, since I play a lot of Morris). Holding up the weight of the concertina while working those tendons is a major complicating factor.

In my own experience, the weight of the instrument is a huge factor. My first good box was/is a Herrington: wonderful, but heavily. My current primary concertina is much lighter, and there's a big difference in how I feel at the end of a practice session or a Morris event

Interestingly, it turned out that the guitar playing -- specifically, gripping a flatpick -- was the thing that hurt the most

Seems to me that a lot of people are probably in my situation -- an injury caused by work, which affects music playing.

Paying attention to hand position has been a big help, as has trying to stretch between tunes. I wouldn't recommend specific treatments, but I will recommend that if you have similar problems, you seek competent medical help and SHOP AROUND. Some medical people don't want to spend the time to look at what you're doing with your keyboard, your concertina and whatever else is hurting and figure out how to help.

ALso, as I learned the hard way, pain is a warning that should be heeded. I didn't do that, and regret it.

#9 goran rahm

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Posted 01 October 2003 - 11:04 PM

Jim:"In my own experience, the weight of the instrument is a huge factor. My first good box was/is a Herrington: wonderful, but heavily. My current primary concertina is much lighter, and there's a big difference in how I feel at the end of a practice session or a Morris event"

Goran:The weight certainly may be an important factor but I just wish to add that it also may be misinterpreted sometimes as the villain in cases when size ( responsible for how 'heavy' the 'bellowsing' is) is the true problem.
Weight problems ought to be treated by "supporting" the instrument. Shoulder straps (rather than neckstraps), efficient 'handle' or resting on knees.

Jim:"Interestingly, it turned out that the guitar playing -- specifically, gripping a flatpick -- was the thing that hurt the most

Seems to me that a lot of people are probably in my situation -- an injury caused by work, which affects music playing."

Goran: Very true and important...when problems occur you have to analyse the complete everyday 'working' spectrum and occasional maybe forgotten overload as well

Jim:"Paying attention to hand position has been a big help, as has trying to stretch between tunes. I wouldn't recommend specific treatments, but I will recommend that if you have similar problems, you seek competent medical help and SHOP AROUND. Some medical people don't want to spend the time to look at what you're doing with your keyboard, your concertina and whatever else is hurting and figure out how to help. "

Goran:Well ,that certainly IS a good point..

Jim:"ALso, as I learned the hard way, pain is a warning that should be heeded. I didn't do that, and regret it."

Goran:Agree....hopefully spreading of experience could be preventive too....




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