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#1 Alan Day

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 04:35 AM

Reading Joachim`s reply in this section regarding links to web sites with music, has prompted me to ask why do we not have a links section on this tune page.Since I recorded my music many of you have followed up with your music.Stuart Estell for example has just posted some excellent songs with concertina accompaniment and I have listened to some lovely music recorded by this site members.I know more is to come from some replies to me.As more postings appear the old posting disappear and say a few years time some excellent music may be lost unless someone writes about it and renews the link.If we had a music link page all new music sites would be listed and we just click on to their site.
I would be interested in your comments and suggestion regarding this idea.
Al

#2 Morgana

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 05:15 AM

Perhaps we could have a recorded tune forum. I've noticed in the Buy and Sell Forum Bob Tedrow updates his own thread when his "for sale now" list is updated.

Alan, you could start a thread on "Alan's Tunes" and simply update it to let us know when a new tune has been added.

Alteratively to save the moderators more work, we could simply make sure that the title of a thread annoucing a new tune is titled something like: "Recorded Tune: Song Title" so that anyone browsing back over past threads (something I know I do from time to time) can spot them easily.

Just a few random neurons firing :D

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#3 Ken_Coles

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 06:02 AM

As soon as these posts started I thought a list of links to people's own recordings would be great. But I kept my mouth shut...IF someone can simply list all the URLs for me, I can make a formal, static page here on C.net. But they, or someone, would need to commit to keeping the list up to date --- I already have too many other noble projects that haven't gotten done yet; ditto for Paul. And I don't want to know I am neglecting yet another item. Another reality is that links and sites come and go; you'd be surprised how fast it happens. I have nearly always stuff on the big Links page that need fixing (true right now, for example).

A subforum here that is very specific to recordings of people playing concertina might be useful and easier, subject to human nature (tendency to drift to other topics etc.). Maybe someone would be willing to moderate that subforum, which means we set it up to give you some privileges with the software to rearrange posts, etc.

Give us your thoughts; we're listening (if distracted).

#4 Alan Day

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 06:45 AM

Hallo Ken,
I was thinking that if it were possible to have a link page situated here in songs/tunes that players or singers etc could list there own sites for people to listen to, possibly under a heading of tunes and concertina accompanied songs ,as on your general links page.It would then mean each subscriber would then be responsable to put their own site on this link page.
The only other option is that players write to one person say me and I put their name on the site like a rolling posting.
I would obviously prefer the former but I would do the latter if no other option was available or happily pass it over to a willing other contributor.
I think it would be a great addition to this site and hopefully encourage others to contribute.I am sure many of you have some lovely music for us to listen to and if the initial worry about critism is overcome( I have recieved none) then we can all enjoy a marvelous addition to this site.
Al

#5 Henk van Aalten

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 07:04 AM

As soon as these posts started I thought a list of links to people's own recordings would be great.....

....A subforum here that is very specific to recordings of people playing concertina might be useful and easier, subject to human nature (tendency to drift to other topics etc.).  Maybe someone would be willing to moderate that subforum, which means we set it up to give you some privileges with the software to rearrange posts, etc.

Give us your thoughts; we're listening (if distracted).

Ken,
I guess you, Alan, Morgana and I are thinking along the same line (as far as this subject concerns). When the forum Tunes/Songs started, I had the idea that I should be filled with contributions of us all. What I had in mind was to host the tune (MP3) somewhere on the free homepage that you "automatically" get from your Internet Provider and send a link to the forum.
Up till now a few concerina-players have uploaded their links in this Tunes/Songs forum:
Alan Day
Stuart Estell
Morgana
me :unsure:

Outside this forum there maybe some more and on the internet there are much more. I was already starting a page to collect the links, showing:
- player
- concertina
- tune
- remarks

I can finish that page and send it to you (?)

Henk

#6 Kurt Braun

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 08:30 PM

Outside this forum there maybe some more and on the internet there are much more. I was already starting a page to collect the links, showing:
- player
- concertina
- tune
- remarks

I can finish that page and send it to you (?)

Henk

I think this is a very worthy project. I'm trying to think how it might work. Would this be on the concertina.net site -- the links and information,- not the sound files?


On the comments . . . In addition to comments on the tunes, I'd welcome knowing more about the players. Perhaps a little biographical information, some information about musical experience, current activities and interests, instruments too, but more about the music than tangible musical things. Maybe not. Maybe this is a separate project listing players with web sites? Just musing.

#7 Henk van Aalten

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 02:08 AM

I think this is a very worthy project.  I'm trying to think how it might work.  Would this be on the concertina.net site -- the links and information,- not the sound files?

Kurt,
With this link I show a concept page. Do'nt look at the contents or lay-out, but at the idea. This page is now at my site, but could be transfered easily to the Concertina.net site.

I like your suggestions about the data to be shown for each entry. Maybe some more suggestions will be welcome!

Another thing is.. which players/tunes shall we include? Only members of C.Net? Only full tunes (no fragments)?

BTW: I like your playing :)

Henk

#8 Kurt Braun

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 08:27 AM

I like it!

What you have is more than conceptual -- it works! It appears to me that growing the page length is high among the next steps.

A couple of comments -- this looks like a list of performances of songs and tunes played on concertina. With an eye toward staying focused on that, there may be little to no need for brand information, though the type of concertina does seem relevant. In place of the brand column, there might rather be genre or some other broad characterization of the song or tune -- the music. I see no reason for excluding fragments -- indeed; generally I perform much more elaborate versions of songs than I record.

On the name column, I like the idea of the concertina.net user name. That way, curious listeners would be able to get at user profile information easily. With that notion, I guess this would be a concertina.net sort of thing. That might keep borders around a project that could quickly get out of had (and die!).

There are all sorts of bells and whistles (clickable sorts for columns, clickable use names) but that can all come later, the main thing is more entries and exposure.

With that in mind, what sort of process to you envision for getting entries on the list? So far you seem to have scoured the membership. Would that be sustainable?

Would there need to be some sort of warning label for Stuart Estell's entries? ;)

I very much enjoyed your playing and missed it on the list.

Kurt

#9 Stephen Mills

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 09:28 AM

Very nice, Henk.

One barrier to broader contributions, besides reticence, is that most of us have never made MP3's. Perhaps those of you who have could offer some guidelines regarding the recording equipment and software you use, with an eye toward economy and simplicity.

#10 Daniel Bradbury

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 10:15 AM

Stephen,

The best way solve this problem is to record a .wav file and then convert it to mp3 using any of a number of converter programs. Many are available on the internet and some shareware is very inexpensive. There are probably some free ones out there if you look hard enough. In general, they work very well and are easy to use.

#11 Henk van Aalten

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 10:38 AM

What you have is more than conceptual -- it works!  It appears to me that growing the page length is high among the next steps.

A couple of comments -- .......

Kurt,
I did some work and added extra info (as you asked for). Have a look at the upgraded page.

At this moment I am hesitating to expand the collection. I am waiting for more comments before I really start building up the page.

I agree with Stephen Mills that some guidelines are needed about recording.

I will come back to this later, but at the moment I have to hurry... other matters ask for attention! :(

Henk

#12 Daniel Bradbury

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 11:08 AM

Hello Henk,

Great Job! Great organization. I can, however, see this becoming an overwhelming task to maintain, and, as it grows larger, to even search. One alternative would be to give one or more listings for each player which directs the browser to their web page(s) where the tunes are stored. The additional fields could give the information about style(s) played, instruments played, and a description of the music to be found, including representative tune lists, biographical info, etc. That way one is only maintaing a list of contributors rather than trying to keep up with all the tunes.

Feedback anyone?

#13 JimLucas

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 11:12 AM

...there may be little to no need for brand information, though the type of concertina does seem relevant.

This depends on what one wants to use the recordings for.
... For just listening, even the type shouldn't be needed.
... To consider learning to play a particular arrangement, knowing the type (including # of buttons) may be helpful. For an anglo it may even require a full keyboard layout.
... To learn about the characteristic sounds of different instruments -- e.g., for somebody who doesn't have them available locally to try or listen to -- the maker alone is insufficient. Various characteristics would be helpful, including type of reeds, end materials, reed pan details (radial or "rectangular" chambers, tilted or not) fretwork style and coverage, size... for some makers, some of this is summarized in a model number, but rarely all of it.

I realize that gathering all those details is an impossible task, but some of it even for some instruments might be really illuminating to those who lack broad exposure.

Edited by JimLucas, 13 March 2004 - 11:15 AM.


#14 JimLucas

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 11:53 AM

One barrier to broader contributions, besides reticence, is that most of us have never made MP3's.

The best way solve this problem is to record a .wav file and then convert it to mp3 using any of a number of converter programs.

What if I were to ask, "What's a .wav file, and by the way, how do I plug a microphone into my computer?"

For at least some of us, those are not stupid questions. In these days when many computers are delivered with everything pre-installed and no instructions, ignorance can be hard to lose without a remedial tutor.

Many are available on the internet and some shareware is very inexpensive.

That's not necesssarily helpful to someone who isn't used to searching the internet for software, even if they think they know what to ask for. ( I just did a quick Google search for anything containing all of ".mp3", ".wav", "converter", and "shareware". It found more than 300 thouand hits. Should I read them all to figure out what I need?)

No, it's about like telling us to "just read the instructions"... when some of us have never learned to read. How about some really basic, really specific help for those of us who need it?

#15 Kurt Braun

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 11:58 AM

Lots of good comments and interest here.

Quickly --- children call.

I really like being able to click on the profiles. Henk, how do you do that so fast?

Stephen's point on learning to record is well taken. I found it daunting. I tried to include some of that on my web site, but it isn't really an area I have much experience in. A good article on concertina.net about recording with minimal equipment, software and effort is a big need. Any takers? Stephen, arenít you in Houston? Come on over to Baton Rouge one day. Iíd be happy to record you!

As for the list itself, as others alluded to, there is the possibility of the project collapsing because of the work involved in maintenance. At some point, not necessarily soon, it might be helpful if it could be designed so people could post their own urls. That would ensure growth too.

Jim: With regard to the instrument information... You are correct on all counts, of course, and I am certainly interested in concertinas at all levels. However, IMHO there is a need to get to the music, the non-material, non-engineering aspects of concertinas, if you will. There certainly seems to be plenty on this site about the instruments themselves.

Kurt

#16 Alan Day

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 01:03 PM

Well done Henk and you have talked yourself into a job.
I must say the concept I had invisaged is what Daniel is suggesting the players themselves could provide the additional information on their sites.
As for MP3 I could ask my son to detail how we did ours if you would be interested.
Al

#17 Henk van Aalten

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 01:07 PM

For at least some of us, those are not stupid questions.† In these days when many computers are delivered with everything pre-installed and no instructions, ignorance can be hard to lose without a remedial tutor.

I fully agree with Jim and I support the suggestion of Kurt to have a page in CNet on this subject.

I just did a quick Google search for anything containing all of ".mp3", ".wav", "converter", and "shareware".† It found more than 300 thouand hits.

It's not that bad Jim. I found only 571!

Up till now there were much more (and very usefull) reactions than I expected.

Thanks all!

Henk

Edited by Henk van Aalten, 13 March 2004 - 01:10 PM.


#18 Henk van Aalten

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 01:33 PM

At some point, not necessarily soon, it might be helpful if it could be designed so people could post their own urls.  That would ensure growth too.

Kurt,
Your suggestion asks for a Database solution. This would also enable sorting the page according to the various criteria (concertina type, title, player, etc.) :rolleyes: .

However this asks for an extra effort from Paul or Ken :( .

Henk




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