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#1 Chris Timson

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 02:25 PM

Just a thought, but another forum where I spend a fair bit of time, Sound on Sound, has recently opened a Newbies subforum. This has proved a great success by being a first stop for the easier questions and reducing the traffic in the general forum where otherwise all such questions go. I find myself wondering if it might work as well here.

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Edited by Chris Timson, 06 October 2008 - 02:25 PM.


#2 Ken_Coles

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 08:37 PM

It could be deja vu all over again, but I could swear this idea came up once and Paul had some interesting reaction to it (what it was of course I don't recall). I'll try to remember to check on it.

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#3 LDT

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 09:38 AM

or maybe a FAQ for newbies might be good.

with answers to questions like "I'm on a budget what concertina should I get" etc.

#4 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 11:37 AM

But who would write the answers? We're a pretty contentious bunch here...

There's also a very good FAQ already out there, the venerable Concertina FAQ from Chris Timson, who started this thread (though it hasn't been updated in a while): http://www.concertina.info.

Daniel

or maybe a FAQ for newbies might be good.

with answers to questions like "I'm on a budget what concertina should I get" etc.


Edited by Daniel Hersh, 07 October 2008 - 11:38 AM.


#5 m3838

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 02:23 PM

But who would write the answers? We're a pretty contentious bunch here...

There's also a very good FAQ already out there, the venerable Concertina FAQ from Chris Timson, who started this thread (though it hasn't been updated in a while): http://www.concertina.info.

Daniel

or maybe a FAQ for newbies might be good.

with answers to questions like "I'm on a budget what concertina should I get" etc.


Yes, there is. Lot's of information.
On a newbie forum. When you ask a question, you don't want only newbies to answer it, what's the point? You want some advanced newbie, who still remembers the beginnings, to answer, and you want a seasoned player, who knows, where it will come to, to answer, and you want occasional maestro to join in, to verify or dispute seasoned player's opinion. Newbie forum will only give a newbie false feeling of safety and inhibit his learning. I'd say, critique, tear apart and offer solutions. No neutral positivity, please. It will only insure that those who can play - will, those who can't - will never learn.

#6 asdormire

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 02:37 PM

or maybe a FAQ for newbies might be good.

with answers to questions like "t" etc.



As a sample answer:

I'm on a budget what concertina should I get?

As this is traditionally a pirate instrument, I would recommend going to a large inexpensive or free festival (examples: Dublin Irish Festival or Portsmouth Maritime Festival) where concertina players are likely to congregate and liberate a nice box. I would concentrate on a neglected instrument that is in hard case, as usually only cheaper instruments are to be found in soft cases. Then just pick it up and walk away. I don't recommend burying your newly acquired treasure, as people will wonder as to why there is newly turned dirt on the grounds. This method should help you to get a reasonable concertina, though it is not guaranteed. Likewise, the type and brand of concertina you have just pillaged also cannot be guaranteed, which means you may end up with an English or a duet when you wanted the superior Anglo style. Look at it this way matey, you got a concertina on a budget. Sort of like that time when you wanted a catchers mitt for your birthday and grandma bought a miniature fielders glove sized for a five year old. Live with it.

#7 m3838

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 03:59 PM

As this is traditionally a pirate instrument


Sound advice.
Simple and elegant.

#8 Daniel Bradbury

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 04:40 PM

I would hate to see newbies isolated in any way. Let them jump in feet first, this is the most friendly, welcoming forum on the web!

#9 asdormire

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 05:01 PM

As this is traditionally a pirate instrument


Sound advice.
Simple and elegant.


Thank You

#10 Dirge

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 07:01 PM

The problem isn't the neophytes per se, it's those among them that ask the same old question, time after time, without ever checking to see if it's already been done ad nauseam.

There is no need for anyone to ever ask the 'What sort of concertina for a beginner?'; the info's there to be read in the forums. (Including the 'Why don't you give us a clue as to what you want to play and how much money you have?' standard first response...) I suspect most people who are too idle to do this sort of background research are wasting everyone's time anyway.

I don't think it needs a separate forum so much as a 'You can't post here for the first time until the system has registered that you performed a search.' function.

(Thinks "I wonder what my first post was?")

#11 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 10:05 PM

Well, so much for the "most friendly, welcoming forum on the web".....

The problem isn't the neophytes per se, it's those among them that ask the same old question, time after time, without ever checking to see if it's already been done ad nauseam.

There is no need for anyone to ever ask the 'What sort of concertina for a beginner?'; the info's there to be read in the forums. (Including the 'Why don't you give us a clue as to what you want to play and how much money you have?' standard first response...) I suspect most people who are too idle to do this sort of background research are wasting everyone's time anyway.

I don't think it needs a separate forum so much as a 'You can't post here for the first time until the system has registered that you performed a search.' function.

(Thinks "I wonder what my first post was?") :(



#12 LDT

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 03:02 AM

The problem isn't the neophytes per se, it's those among them that ask the same old question, time after time, without ever checking to see if it's already been done ad nauseam.

There is no need for anyone to ever ask the 'What sort of concertina for a beginner?'; the info's there to be read in the forums. (Including the 'Why don't you give us a clue as to what you want to play and how much money you have?' standard first response...) I suspect most people who are too idle to do this sort of background research are wasting everyone's time anyway.

I don't think it needs a separate forum so much as a 'You can't post here for the first time until the system has registered that you performed a search.' function.

(Thinks "I wonder what my first post was?")


When you search for such a question...it comes up with a million threads and for a newbie this looks rather daunting and I suppose they may want a 'custom' answer.

#13 Ken_Coles

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 07:10 AM

or maybe a FAQ for newbies might be good.

with answers to questions like "I'm on a budget what concertina should I get" etc.


This was the original intent of the Buyer's Guide, most of which is between 3 and 8 years old. While I always enjoyed working on it, we found it was a lot of work to keep up; I still tinker with it a little now and then. My impression over recent years is that a lot of new people never look at it, perhaps because of the disclaimer we have up there (go to forum for latest information!). Hmmm...a trip full circle.

Ken

#14 Richard Morse

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 07:14 AM

I don't think it needs a separate forum so much as a 'You can't post here for the first time until the system has registered that you performed a search.'

I've tried using the search function many times and have yet to get reasonable results. I think there is something seriously wrong with the way it functions.

-- Rich --

#15 LDT

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 07:17 AM

or maybe a FAQ for newbies might be good.

with answers to questions like "I'm on a budget what concertina should I get" etc.


This was the original intent of the Buyer's Guide, most of which is between 3 and 8 years old. While I always enjoyed working on it, we found it was a lot of work to keep up; I still tinker with it a little now and then. My impression over recent years is that a lot of new people never look at it, perhaps because of the disclaimer we have up there (go to forum for latest information!). Hmmm...a trip full circle.

Ken


I read it before hand but I found the guide US biased...I needed up to date uk prices. So that's why I posted on the forum.

I don't think it needs a separate forum so much as a 'You can't post here for the first time until the system has registered that you performed a search.'

I've tried using the search function many times and have yet to get reasonable results. I think there is something seriously wrong with the way it functions.

-- Rich --

Yeah that search engine is rubbish. I can never find anything becuase it gives me a million results.

Edited by LDT, 08 October 2008 - 10:37 AM.


#16 m3838

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 11:10 AM

or maybe a FAQ for newbies might be good.

with answers to questions like "I'm on a budget what concertina should I get" etc.


This was the original intent of the Buyer's Guide, most of which is between 3 and 8 years old. While I always enjoyed working on it, we found it was a lot of work to keep up; I still tinker with it a little now and then. My impression over recent years is that a lot of new people never look at it, perhaps because of the disclaimer we have up there (go to forum for latest information!). Hmmm...a trip full circle.

Ken


I read it before hand but I found the guide US biased...I needed up to date uk prices. So that's why I posted on the forum.

I don't think it needs a separate forum so much as a 'You can't post here for the first time until the system has registered that you performed a search.'

I've tried using the search function many times and have yet to get reasonable results. I think there is something seriously wrong with the way it functions.

-- Rich --

Yeah that search engine is rubbish. I can never find anything becuase it gives me a million results.


Search is useless, but articles outside of the Forum are good. Problem is, we want quick answer without bothering with lengthy research. Usually we think: "hmm, nice little instrument, let's see the price". And we type "concertina sale". Oh, it's only $100! Cool! Well, now let's be serious and ask the forum (I'm sure there's one somewhere). Oh, here's the one. "Hey guys, whadaya think of this cool consmenrtinah? Is it good? I mean, I know it's a beginner's, but I just want bla bla bla, but tell me, if I can bla bla bla (and I have already spent good half an hour researching!)?
So it's OK to have same questions over and over, but not necessarily OK to answer them publicly. PM is the way to go.

#17 Dirge

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 03:03 PM

Well, so much for the "most friendly, welcoming forum on the web".....

The problem isn't the neophytes per se, it's those among them that ask the same old question, time after time, without ever checking to see if it's already been done ad nauseam.

There is no need for anyone to ever ask the 'What sort of concertina for a beginner?'; the info's there to be read in the forums. (Including the 'Why don't you give us a clue as to what you want to play and how much money you have?' standard first response...) I suspect most people who are too idle to do this sort of background research are wasting everyone's time anyway.

I don't think it needs a separate forum so much as a 'You can't post here for the first time until the system has registered that you performed a search.' function.

(Thinks "I wonder what my first post was?") :(


Come off it, Daniel; we aren't talking to one of them now, we're discussing how best to deal with them. I hope I've been as patient as everyone else definitely is with the new boys, but are you going to tell me you've never thought 'We did this one only last week' as you type that the Rochelle is probably best bet and not to touch a Chinese cheapy with a barge pole?

And I get away easy, in most cases after the first few 'Well, what DO you want?' exchanges I can honourably duck out and leave it to someone else, not being qualified to speak on Anglos, folk, Englishes...

Could it be that a search on the basic beginner questions gets thousands of results because the same question is being asked and answered thousands of times? It certainly feels like it. Better the question is answered nicely, than to put someone off, I agree, but it does get repetitive and seems like a waste of everyone's good intentions. Perhaps 'cut and paste' is the answer?

#18 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 03:50 PM

Why do you assume that "they" wouldn't read a thread titled "Newbies Forum", see your post and think "perhaps I just shouldn't ask my question"? And new players' situations often vary, so the old answers don't always apply.

These "newbie" threads are only a waste of your time if you choose to participate in them and resent it. I personally don't mind answering these questions, even if they're repeats. There are plenty of other threads (e.g. "Mornington Crescent") that don't interest me and I don't read -- but I don't begrudge the space that they take up.

The search function doesn't always work well. It works fine if you're looking for an unusual, specific term (like "baffles" or "Nickolds") but not so well for something like this. How exactly would you construct a search for this question?

Well, so much for the "most friendly, welcoming forum on the web".....

Come off it, Daniel; we aren't talking to one of them now, we're discussing how best to deal with them. I hope I've been as patient as everyone else definitely is with the new boys, but are you going to tell me you've never thought 'We did this one only last week' as you type that the Rochelle is probably best bet and not to touch a Chinese cheapy with a barge pole?

And I get away easy, in most cases after the first few 'Well, what DO you want?' exchanges I can honourably duck out and leave it to someone else, not being qualified to speak on Anglos, folk, Englishes...

Could it be that a search on the basic beginner questions gets thousands of results because the same question is being asked and answered thousands of times? It certainly feels like it. Better the question is answered nicely, than to put someone off, I agree, but it does get repetitive and seems like a waste of everyone's good intentions. Perhaps 'cut and paste' is the answer?






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