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#19 David Levine

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 03:36 PM

Right, there are no shortcuts. Especially not to be found here on the net.
There are just years of tipping along and sudden bursts of inspiration.
You work to get to a plateau, stay there a while and then reach for another plateau.
If it was easy everybody would do it....

Edited by David Levine, 11 May 2009 - 06:44 AM.


#20 Patrick King

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 04:56 AM

I was wondering if it would be feasible to have a rating system for the tunes so I could easily see if they were for beginners, intermediate or experienced players. Or a difficulty rating 1-10 or something.


That's a real good idea, LDT, but it's probably something that not many people will use, because they already have their own concepts of telling themselves "Am I ready for this, or am I not?".
The way I find a difficulty of a tune I want to learn, is of course the key signature. If it's A MAJOR or one that I'm not used to, I try and find another tune that hasn't so many notes and has the same key signature of the more difficult one. It might sound a bit like a piker's way out, (no offence anyone, please) but it works for me. The value of most of the notes doesn't bother me at all. All I do is go slowly until I'm used to the first phrase and then do the same thing with the other phrases. That concept is one of which my Organ/Piano teacher, a Nun, taught me. I would do 3 times through the whole song/tune with the right hand, the same with the left, then I'd put them all together; all at different tempos. But those are the things that made me treasure my music-teacher... she was strict and at the same time, patient. If I got a chord, note, or pedal wrong in any part of the music that I would be learning, I would have to repeat from a certain bar to another certain bar, until I had done it 3 times through, unless with the bar-to-bar concept, it would sometimes be 8 times. But those are the sometimes needed values for both a music-teacher and music-player: Patience, Being Strict, and being Persistent, until the end.

Best Wishes to all,
Patrick

Edited by Patrick King, 11 May 2009 - 05:00 AM.


#21 Roger Gawley

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 12:54 PM

The problem with a rating system, as several people have already noted one way or another, is that one person's easy tune is someone else's hard tune and vice verca.

Tunes that look hard can often be quite simple once you work them out. For instance a decorative twiddle that goes "B, Bflat, Bnatural, Bflat" looks horrible written down. Playing it (at least on English) is easy.

#22 Pete Dunk

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 06:39 PM

The problem with a rating system, as several people have already noted one way or another, is that one person's easy tune is someone else's hard tune and vice versa.

Tunes that look hard can often be quite simple once you work them out. For instance a decorative twiddle that goes "B, Bflat, Bnatural, Bflat" looks horrible written down. Playing it (at least on English) is easy.


I couldn't agree more, degrees of difficulty are often instrument specific and here we must draw a line between concertina types. Anglo, English and duet systems (including all possible variants) are so fundamentally different from each other that they become part of an instrument type or family, in this case free reed. They are as broadly similar a 'woodwind' which encompasses such instruments as flute (lip plate - or not if you're a smart ass), clarinet (single reed) and oboe (twin reed).

The only way to define a degree of difficulty that is common to all instruments is to grade the piece on musical complexity alone and no one size fits all.

#23 Patrick King

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 03:24 AM

The problem with a rating system, as several people have already noted one way or another, is that one person's easy tune is someone else's hard tune and vice versa.

Tunes that look hard can often be quite simple once you work them out. For instance a decorative twiddle that goes "B, Bflat, Bnatural, Bflat" looks horrible written down. Playing it (at least on English) is easy.


I couldn't agree more, degrees of difficulty are often instrument specific and here we must draw a line between concertina types. Anglo, English and duet systems (including all possible variants) are so fundamentally different from each other that they become part of an instrument type or family, in this case free reed. They are as broadly similar a 'woodwind' which encompasses such instruments as flute (lip plate - or not if you're a smart ***), clarinet (single reed) and oboe (twin reed).

The only way to define a degree of difficulty that is common to all instruments is to grade the piece on musical complexity alone and no one size fits all.


Hey Tallship,

I know what English and Anglo concertinas are, but what are Duet concertinas?

I thought it would be good to know,
Thanks,
Patrick

#24 David Barnert

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 07:05 AM

I know what English and Anglo concertinas are, but what are Duet concertinas?

Duet concertinas combine the best properties of the English and the Anglo (a biased opinion, of course). Like the English, they play the same note in each direction. Like the Anglo, the higher range is on the right hand side and the lower on the left. They are called "duet" because one can play a melody with the right hand and another melody (or chords) with the left, quite analogously with the piano (but not arranged like one).

There are several duet systems, all frighteningly different from each other: Maccann, Crane (also called Triumph), Jeffries, and (the one I play, and the only modern system among them) Hayden. Info about all of them may be found at the concertina library.

#25 Patrick King

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 04:06 AM

I know what English and Anglo concertinas are, but what are Duet concertinas?

Duet concertinas combine the best properties of the English and the Anglo (a biased opinion, of course). Like the English, they play the same note in each direction. Like the Anglo, the higher range is on the right hand side and the lower on the left. They are called "duet" because one can play a melody with the right hand and another melody (or chords) with the left, quite analogously with the piano (but not arranged like one).

There are several duet systems, all frighteningly different from each other: Maccann, Crane (also called Triumph), Jeffries, and (the one I play, and the only modern system among them) Hayden. Info about all of them may be found at the concertina library.


Oh, alright David, thanks!

I thought English concertinas would've had the right hand for the higher note range, but it doesn't sound as though it is what I thought it was like.

Thanks for explaining,
Best Wishes for all,
Patrick

#26 Patrick King

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 03:48 AM

Hi again everyone,


Next to all the time (about 9/10 times,) I feel sorry for those who cannot read sheet-music. It's worth a million dollars when you own the special skill of music reading. It's something everyone can be good at. It's just that some people are slow-learners (no names included, and please no offence, anyone; most of my friends are, and they love it when I can teach them how to do something that they're not too good at or have never done in their life,) and they need time, while there are fast-learners; the ones that pick things up faster than average people; just keep it in mind. It doesn't make you any better than them or them, any less.

One of these days, I'm going to set up my own forum on here, based on teaching people who don't know how to read sheet-music to being able to read music. Don't worry, I'll set-up the first lesson by the end of this week, and then the next lesson will be put up 2 weeks time from then.

Keep an eye out for the first lesson. I'll name the forum 'Learning to read music,' so you won't spend 1 or 2 hours looking for it. ;)


Until then,
Best Wishes,

Patrick :D B)

#27 Fergus_fiddler

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Posted 18 May 2009 - 04:31 AM

Weird thing, but the most I play the anglo, the more my reading skills improve.

I've spent 15 years playing fiddle without reading music but for the ocassional tricky bar or to identify the key signature of a tune. But having more than one choice for a note, and being, somehow, easier to my identify the dots on the buttons than on the strings, I feel obliged to practice my music reading. And it works.

The only problem I've found is that sight learned tunes don't seem to stick as well in my poor old brain as the learned by hear ones... but I suppose it's a matter of custom and practice :rolleyes:

Cheers,

Fer

#28 Patrick King

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 02:59 AM

Weird thing, but the most I play the anglo, the more my reading skills improve.

I've spent 15 years playing fiddle without reading music but for the ocassional tricky bar or to identify the key signature of a tune. But having more than one choice for a note, and being, somehow, easier to my identify the dots on the buttons than on the strings, I feel obliged to practice my music reading. And it works.

The only problem I've found is that sight learned tunes don't seem to stick as well in my poor old brain as the learned by hear ones... but I suppose it's a matter of custom and practice :rolleyes:

Cheers,

Fer



Yes, it is strange, Fer. I used to be poor at reading sheet-music, but ever since I started on the concertina (an Anglo layout also :huh: ,) my music reading has improved. I would never admit that my Bass staff reading was poor to my music teacher :o , but I still use my Bass staff today for classical music, and it's improved, even though I play in the Treble staff 95% of the time. :lol:

This might sound a bit confusing to people who don't know how to read sheet-music, but it might change very soon! ;)

Best Wishes to All,
Patrick

Edited by Patrick King, 19 May 2009 - 03:00 AM.


#29 Patrick King

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 02:56 AM

Weird thing, but the most I play the anglo, the more my reading skills improve.

I've spent 15 years playing fiddle without reading music but for the ocassional tricky bar or to identify the key signature of a tune. But having more than one choice for a note, and being, somehow, easier to my identify the dots on the buttons than on the strings, I feel obliged to practice my music reading. And it works.

The only problem I've found is that sight learned tunes don't seem to stick as well in my poor old brain as the learned by hear ones... but I suppose it's a matter of custom and practice :rolleyes:

Cheers,

Fer



Yes, it is strange, Fer. I used to be poor at reading sheet-music, but ever since I started on the concertina (an Anglo layout also :huh: ,) my music reading has improved. I would never admit that my Bass staff reading was poor to my music teacher :o , but I still use my Bass staff today for classical music, and it's improved, even though I play in the Treble staff 95% of the time. :lol:

This might sound a bit confusing to people who don't know how to read sheet-music, but it might change very soon! ;)

Best Wishes to All,
Patrick


Hi everyone,

Sorry to bring this up, but I don't think I'll be putting up any lessons this week, but surely next Friday. It's just due to the fact that I can't find any manuscript paper or something to write down the lesson.

Sorry for this inconvenience, but I'm sure I'll have it up next Friday.

Cheers,
Patrick

P.S. Instead of getting off-topic, and back to the main topic: Music is a challenge to learn to play. Any style, anything; but that's a good thing (but not the only one) about music; you can challenge yourself with it. ;) ^_^

Edited by Patrick King, 21 May 2009 - 03:02 AM.


#30 Pete Dunk

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 01:56 PM

Reading this thread from this point highlights a fault in the Tune-O-Tron that probably needs addressing.

It would appear that the Tune-O-Tron doesn't apply the rules regarding accidentals correctly and will sharpen or flatten all notes of the same name (ie D) within a bar regardless of the octave. Other online converters don't do this although some downloadable abc software (again incorrectly)does.

Can this be sorted out Paul?

Pete




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