406 replies to this topic

[tallship]

Never mind the Keel Row.
Has anybody managed all Eight variations of "Oh Dear What Can the Matter Be"? (The First tune of this thread)

Yes, two people here. I haven't played it for a while so would need to practice it back up but it is playable at a reasonable pace. My other half plays it on English concertina, flute, recorder and whistle ...

[Torres Strait Anglo]

I'd be game to have a go on the recorder, though not sure how I'd make it sound. I shan't be trying it on the anglo for Five, maybe Ten, years. When all Eight variations were first written out, I was inclined to declare it impossible for (proficient play on) the anglo concertina.

[tallship]

When all Eight variations were first written out, I was inclined to declare it impossible for (proficient play on) the anglo concertina.

Get a proper concertina!

[JimLucas]

Never mind the Keel Row.
Has anybody managed all Eight variations of "Oh Dear What Can the Matter Be"? (The First tune of this thread)

Yes, two people here. I haven't played it for a while so would need to practice it back up but it is playable at a reasonable pace. My other half plays it on English concertina, flute, recorder and whistle ...

I'd be game to have a go on the recorder, though not sure how I'd make it sound. I shan't be trying it on the anglo for Five, maybe Ten, years. When all Eight variations were first written out, I was inclined to declare it impossible for (proficient play on) the anglo concertina.

Get a proper concertina!

The tune is simple, and so are the variations, though some are quick in places. But those quick bits are really simple, repetitive patterns -- scales, arpeggios, little down-and-up bits -- and pretty easy to learn, with practice to get your fingers (well, mine, at least) used to the repetitiions.

I think it's really just as easy on the anglo as on the English or the whistle. It can be played entirely on the G row (except for the C# and the low E, which don't exist in that row). But if the rapid bellows reversals in some of the fast sections give you trouble, they can be smoothed out with cross-row fingering patterns. Also, some cross-row patterns (which probably depart significantly from most folks' defaults) can be used to select where to make the bellows changes, and thus manipulate the flow of the tune. E.g.

• The run from b down to d can be done entirely in the right hand, starting on the push and reversing the bellows for each new note, instead of having two pulls in a row (f# and e).
• That same run can be done entirely on the pull, though the e will then be in the left hand.
• Similarly, with a Jeffries layout the run from a down to c# can be done entirely on the pull (again with just the e in the left hand).
• Since the Wheatstone layout has f# only on the pull and c# only on the push, you can't get that last run all in one direction, but I think that doing the first four notes on the pull and the last two on the push (so both the e and the d in the left hand) gives it a nice rhythm.
• And if you have 32 or more buttons, you probably have a push f# in the right hand, and then you could do that last run entirely on the push.

So Torres, you should practice a bit, and soon your neighbors (whales, dolphins, sharks?) will stop asking, "Oh Dear What Can the Matter Be?"

[tallship]

This is probably the last offering for some time because I'm running out of ideas. It's a delightful piece nonetheless with musically pleasing variations. The basic tune is grand enough and the variations develop particularly well. For the definitive version beg, steal, borrow or as a last resort even buy (which I did and would recommend) the Billy Pigg CD "The Border Minstrel".

Did I mention that it's a particularly long piece? Have a good weekend.

Pete.

Edited for silly ABC typo

X:35
T:Madame Bonaparte
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=150
R:Hornpipe
K:G
d>c |: B2 B>A B>dB>G | c2 c>B c>ec>A | G>Bd>f g>fg>e | d2-d>e d>cB>A |
B2 B>A B>dB>G | c>Bc>d e>fg>e | d>BG>B c>AF>A |1 G2 G>F G2 d>c :|2 G2 G>F G2 B>A |
|:G>Bd>f g>fg>e | d2-d>e d>cB>A | G>Bd>f g>fg>e | d2-d>e d>cB>A |
(3Bcd G>d B>dG>d | c>e A>e c>e A>e | B>dG>d B>dG>G | F>A D>A F>A (3d^c=c |
B>dG>d B>dG>B | c>Bc>d e>fg>e | d>BG>B c>AF>A |1 G2 G>F G2 B>A :|2 G2 G>F G2 (3d^c=c |
|:B2 B>A (3Bcd B>G | c2c>B (3cde c>A |(3GDG (3BGB (3dBd (3gfe | d2-d>e d>cB>A |
B2 B>A (3Bcd B>G | c>Bc>d e>f (3gfe | (3dBG (3DGB c>AF>A |1 G2 G>F G2 (3d^c=c :|2 G2 G>F G2 B>A |
|:G>B (3def g>a (3gfe | d2-d>e d>cB>A | (3GDG (3BGB (3dBd (3gfe | d2-d>e d>cB>A|
(3GBd (3gdB (3GBd (3gdB | (3Gce (3gec (3Gce (3gec | (3GBd (3gdB (3GBd (3gdB | (3Adf (3afd (3Adf (3afd |
(3GBd (3gdB (3GBd (3gdB | (3cGc (3ece (3gfg (3age | (3GBd (3GBd (3DFA (3DFA |1 (3GBd (3GBd g2 B>A :|2 (3GBd (3GBd g2 d>c |
Q:1/4=130
B2 B>A B>dB>G | c2 c>B c>ec>A | G>Bd>f g>fg>e | d2-d>e d>cB>A |
B2 B>A B>dB>G | c>Bc>d e>fg>e | d>BG>B c>AF>A | G2 (3gfa Hg2 |

Edited by tallship, 25 July 2009 - 12:30 PM.

[spindizzy]

Did I mention that it's a particularly long piece?

Fortunately most sessions will just play the first 2 parts , though individual folk may through in a few more twiddles as they like (I find that I add a few extra triplets sometimes)

Doesn't Simon Thoumire do a partularly manic version on the English International CD ( and here on youtube )

Chris

Edited by spindizzy, 24 July 2009 - 02:37 AM.

[tallship]

Doesn't Simon Thoumire do a partularly manic version on the English International CD ( and here on youtube )

Chris

He does play this on English International and I dislike it intensely, he's a very good musician indeed but that's just way too fast and there are too many errors on the youtube clip for a player of this standard in my opinion.

I've just edited an error in the abc above so for anyone who has already printed a copy off, the first note in the triplet at the end of line four should be a d not an e.

[Torres Strait Anglo]

JimLucas, thank you. I'll have another go at ohdearwhatcanthematterbe one of these days. One of the joys be early stage learning is the rapid advancement of skills. That is, one doesn't have to improve all that much to experience the joy of being twice the player you were last month!

Never seen whales or dolphins here, plenty of sharks, but they remain in the water. Crocodiles have the ability to come of the water & bring their displeasure up close to be expressed personally. However it is my experience that humans are the ones to "lose it" if someone is practising concertina nearby.

Most people mistake it for a mouth organ, even when they see it.

[Torres Strait Anglo]

Get a proper concertina!

Hehe, probably would have, had I known anything of concertinas when I first bought one, or had I any choice. I wrote to a music shop for "a very portable musical instrument, that is not blown by mouth" and got a Hohner 20-button anglo.

Now, like many who stumble onto, or end up with something (or somewhere) by accident, I am passionate about anglo.

Love the Billy Pigg tunes. They make beautiful stand-alone melodies.
Haven't been game to attempt the "warbling" bits in Northumberland Gathering.

[tallship]

Here are a couple of themes that are from Alistair Anderson's 'The Shipley Set', these being parts two and four respectively. I would be very grateful if anyone can post the intro and third theme.

X:1
T: Shipley Hornpipe, The
C: Alistair Anderson
D: Syncopace
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
R: hornpipe
K: Dmaj
(3ABc|d2Af edce|d2Af e2fg|aAgA fAeA|dFAd c2BA|
dBGe cAfd|Bgec a2fg|afbg eafd|gecA d2:|
|:fg|a2fd gecf|dBec A3G|FAde fdBg|ecaf e2fg|
aAFa gGEg|fFDf e2fg|aAFa bagf|efgc d2:|

X:1
T: Shipley Jig, The
C: Alistair Anderson
D: Syncopace
M: 6/8
L: 1/8
R: jig
K:Dmaj
AdA fAe|GBG A3|DFA dcd|efg fed|
AdA fAe|dcB A3|GBG dGe|Afe d3:|
|:dfd adf|gfe f3|GBd FAd|Egf edc|
dfd adf|gfe f3|AdA eAf|Age d3:|

[tallship]

Love the Billy Pigg tunes. They make beautiful stand-alone melodies.
Haven't been game to attempt the "warbling" bits in Northumberland Gathering.

I find Northumbrian Gathering a particularly challenging piece although I can't really say why. The dots seem straightforward enough but I have a tough time trying to make the piece flow as it should. I think it has a great deal to do with teaching your fingers to learn the patterns of the tune, much like Jim's earlier description of the variations in O!DWCTMB? (that's Oh! Dear, What Can the Matter Be?) but it's easier said than done!

Bad Jim. 100 lines "I need to remember what it was like to be a beginner but I'm far too old to remember and far too cynical to give a ..."

I'm particularly intrigued by your reference to the "warbling bits", do you have Billy Pigg's album on CD or indeed a copy of his tune book? Remember that Billy Pigg played Northumbrian smallpipes, a pretty unique instrument and impossible to emulate on a concertina or anything else for that matter (excluding other types of bagpipes which may come close in technique if not pitch). Your concertina can add lovely twiddly bits to tunes if you wish but a set of pipes it will never be!

Pete

[Torres Strait Anglo]

"NorthumbRIAN gathering" my apologies. (slaps forehead)

For "warbling" please read "turns". My music theory lexicon is suffering from long disuse.
When the .midi file, from the Tune-O-Tron converter, is opened in my music writing program, the turns in Northumbrian Gathering have a very (pleasant) "warbling" sound.

I change the playback instrument to "accordion" or "flute" - on my sound card they are the closest sound to concertina. These light "whistly" playback instruments add to the pleasantness of the turns in N'mbrian Gathering.

The only contact I have with Billy Pigg music is in this discussion thread and pasted into the Tune-O-Tron. Do not possess any CD's or tunebooks.

I am able to squeeze out the melody of N'mbrian Gathering, but A maj can be a tricky key for C/G anglo. If I transpose N'mbrian Gathering into G I can more easily pick up the rhythm of the tune.

[tallship]

Following a request for a 'simple' harmony piece I've just transcribed this tune to abc. This pretty piece is a slow air that's still quite demanding if you're not used to bashing out chords. It will probably take Danny about five minutes to get this up to performance standard.

X:1
T: Auld Robin Gray
O: Scottish
Q: 1/4=60
M: C
L: 1/8
K:G
" Adagio"G | ([BG]>[cA] [dB]>[ec]) ([ec][dB])z[dB] | ([ec]>[cE] [ge]>[ec]) ([ec][dB])zG | ([BG]>[cA] [dB]>[ec]) ([ec][dB][cA][BG])| ([AF]>G) ([cF]>[BG]) ([BG]>[AF]) zG|
"5"([BG]>[cA] [dB]>[ec]) ([ec][dB])z[dB] | [ec]>[fA] [gBG]>[BG] {[d/B/]}[cA] z A | B>d ([gB][bd]) ([c'e]<[ac]) ([fA]>[gB]) | [B2G2D2] [A2F2D2C2] [G2D2B,2G,2] z _B|
"9"[_B2G2] [AFD]>B [G2D2_B,2] B>c | [d2_B2G2] [_eGC]>c [d2F2D2] z A | _B>A B[=BG=F] [cGE]>B [cGE][^cG_E] | [dFD]>^c [gFD]>c H[d2F2D2] z d |
"13"(B<G) ([dB]>[ec]) ([ec][dB])z[dB]|[ec][dB][cA][B^G] [c2A2] z A | (B<d) ([gB][bd]) ([c'e]<[ac]) ([fA]>[gB]) | [B2G2] [AFDC]>[GDB,G,] [G2D2 B,2G,2] z z ||

Edited to make the Tune-O-Tron work - see below!

Edited by tallship, 09 August 2009 - 11:31 AM.

[tallship]

For some reason the Tune-O-Tron doesn't like the abc file above and is adding weird vamped chords into the midi playback!

The abc works fine in O'Regan's online translator as does the midi playback.

[tallship]

I got to the bottom of that little mystery then. For some reason the Tune-O-Tron was reading the "Adagio" text statement as a chord instruction. I've now edited the abc and inserted a space before the A in " Adagio" and that's sorted it out. Bit wierd that!

[Kautilya]

I haven't read this topic through yet, but this site may have been put up on here before.

http://www.8notes.com

It has been divided into instruments or you can search under different music types. I found the O'Neills interesting, under the title of Traditional music.

Thanks,
Patrick

Thanks for this Patrick!! Very useful site - the only pity is that you cannot slow the ABC down so one can gradually get the run of the fingering and then build up speed (a la Alan Day typing concept.... typing words requires the brain to build up the letter phrasing until a particular word becomes automatic and the same should therefore apply to phrasing on the buttons (doing scales is no more than typing the word cdefgabc which as u know is Sanskrit for abracadabra).

I first developed a folding,portable keyboard in 1956 but was too young to know about patenting. I reproduced the qwerty keyboard, from a Pitman's teach yourself typing book, on a piece of paper, and then when i had nothing to do I took it out of my pocket, spread it out and practised typing....LoL... it worked, since, after I bought a portable Royal typewriter in an auction for 10 quid, I found I was already well under way.....

Indeed I have recently been experimenting playing 'word' music (with little success!) on my computer keyboard to see what sounds different words produce. My first concerto is some way off as the monkey who is co-composing with me keeps using antique and difficult words from a book allegedly written by some bloke called Shakeshaft.

[tallship]

the only pity is that you cannot slow the ABC down so one can gradually get the run of the fingering and then build up speed (a la Alan Day typing concept....

Oh yes you can! The speed of an abc file is set by a field in the header (all of those funny things at the beginning of the file). Speed is set in the Q: field. First set the default note length i.e. 1/8 or 1/4 and so on and then set the beats per minute. I find that the statement Q: 1/4=150 is a good starting point for most tunes. Slow airs will be too fast at this speed and fast reels too slow so the beat rate of 150 needs to be adjusted; for learning purposes try 80-90. Remember that the key signature field K: must be the last statement in the header. The Q: field can be added anywhere after X: and before K:

Have you tried any of the abc software that's available for free download?

Pete.

[Kautilya]

the only pity is that you cannot slow the ABC down so one can gradually get the run of the fingering and then build up speed (a la Alan Day typing concept....

Oh yes you can! The speed of an abc file is set by a field in the header (all of those funny things at the beginning of the file). Speed is set in the Q: field. First set the default note length i.e. 1/8 or 1/4 and so on and then set the beats per minute. I find that the statement Q: 1/4=150 is a good starting point for most tunes. Slow airs will be too fast at this speed and fast reels too slow so the beat rate of 150 needs to be adjusted; for learning purposes try 80-90. Remember that the key signature field K: must be the last statement in the header. The Q: field can be added anywhere after X: and before K:

Have you tried any of the abc software that's available for free download?

Pete.

Oh good. I had looked around a few months back but i only found rather expensive downloads

Is this one any good do u know? http://www.shareware...m-trainer-2.htm

ta!