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#19 tombilly

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 03:48 AM

Well, if Lachenals were good enough for musicians like Mrs Crotty and I think, the late Kitty Hayes - I think they should be pretty good for most of us to play decent music on.

There is also the additional pleasure of playing an instrument that has been well played before - like living in an old house.

Edited by tombilly, 10 June 2008 - 03:53 AM.


#20 chris

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 04:24 AM

Hi
Unfortunately my old house (1886 and younger than my Scates concertina :rolleyes: ) leaks and the wind whistles thru places it shouldn't-perhaps I need to give it the same care that I give to my concertinas -but you don't get much of a tune from it :(
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#21 Chris Timson

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 05:15 AM

perhaps I need to give it the same care that I give to my concertinas -but you don't get much of a tune from it :(

Have a sense of perspective, man! Just think how wet your concertinas would get without your house!

Chris

#22 Stephen Chambers

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 05:50 AM

Well, if Lachenals were good enough for musicians like Mrs Crotty and I think, the late Kitty Hayes - I think they should be pretty good for most of us to play decent music on.

Indeed both of those ladies did much of their playing on 20-key German concertinas, only getting their Lachenals in later years, whilst Bernard O'Sullivan told me how Mrs. Crotty turned down a 4-row Jeffries off Ned Falvey (which Bernard then got) and chose her Lachenal in preference!

#23 Bill N

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 07:36 AM

If i make it to your gig next week, I'll bring my Rochelle (and the Henry Harley just for fun), and you can give them a try.



God talk about pushing buttons - OK OK OK
Quality has nothing to do with it either!!! That should add another 22 posts to this thread - LOL!


Sorry, this was meant as a reply to a PM from topic starter. Probably doesn't belong here. Please pardon my newbie enthusiasm (and technical ineptitude) :(

#24 bill_mchale

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 07:44 AM

Well, if Lachenals were good enough for musicians like Mrs Crotty and I think, the late Kitty Hayes - I think they should be pretty good for most of us to play decent music on.

There is also the additional pleasure of playing an instrument that has been well played before - like living in an old house.


Just a minor nitpick... I know the Irish have a casual relationship with time, but the last I checked, it was Mrs. Crotty and not Kitty Hayes that was the late one...

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Now I have to amend my own posting.. I haven't been able to keep up with the board for the last month or so because of work, my upcoming wedding, etc.. I had a bad feeling so did a search.. It is sad indeed to hear that Kitty Hayes has passed on. Heaven is now a richer place and we on Earth will miss her. I never knew her, but I enjoyed her playing immensely. Lets hope harp is not the only instrument allowed in heaven. So they are both late now.

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Edited by bill_mchale, 10 June 2008 - 08:53 AM.


#25 Guest_Peter Laban_*

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 08:52 AM

Just a minor nitpick... I know the Irish have a casual relationship with time, but the last I checked, it was Mrs. Crotty and not Kitty Hayes that was the late one...

--
Bill


Not to put you on the spot Bill and I wish I didn't have to say it, but maybe check again, here

#26 bill_mchale

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 08:55 AM

Just a minor nitpick... I know the Irish have a casual relationship with time, but the last I checked, it was Mrs. Crotty and not Kitty Hayes that was the late one...

--
Bill


Not to put you on the spot Bill and I wish I didn't have to say it, but maybe check again, here


Thanks Peter,
I am sorry.. I haven't been keeping up on here lately as much as I should.. too much going on in my life. At least she along with a few others helped keep concertina music alive back in the 60s and 70s when many didn't care about it. The world is a richer place for her having been here, and a poorer place because she has moved on.

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Bill

#27 DD Reed

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 09:08 AM

So, Ive been playing the fiddle for quite some years and know a good load of tunes. Im happy with my fiddle playing, but I most enjoy playing with a small group, usually a flutist friend and my girlfriend on C#/D box. Ive been planning to take up the concertina at some point, and I've been playing around with a Stagi 20 button, and have gotten some tunes down on that instrument, despite the limited range. Ive been saving for a mid-range instrument, and have about enough now for something like and Edgley or Tedrow, or possibly a mahogany Lachenal or Jones. I could save a bit more and get a rosewood Lach as well.

My plan is to buy one of these instruments and put a down payment on a Sutner or Dipper soon after. Because of this plan, Im more concerned with playability and responsiveness than true concertina tone, as by the time ive played enough to consider myself a serious player, I'll have a top quality instrument.

Which would be the best choice for the meantime? I like the sound of the older instruments, but do they play as crisply as an Edgley? I know opinions would be varied, but I need to inform my decision as there aren't many concertinas (or concertinists) around to compare with.

If you prefer not to voice your opinions openly, please PM me.

Thanks!



#28 Takayuki YAGI

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 09:44 AM

Ultimately, I agree with those who say that there is something special about the tone of a rosewood Lachenal, but at the same time, many of them (but not all) are not as responsive as many of us demand for playing in Irish sessions (Of course if you aren't planning on playing in an Irish Session, then ignore all this :)). Of course, good rosewood Lach's are probably pricey enough these days as well.

I agree. In many Irish session here, people are playing fast. And for me, it is hard ( not impossible though ) to join on that fast music with my Lach.
I thought that thread starter said he is playing Irish music but it seemed to be my reading mistake..

Well, if Lachenals were good enough for musicians like Mrs Crotty and I think, the late Kitty Hayes - I think they should be pretty good for most of us to play decent music on.

There is also the additional pleasure of playing an instrument that has been well played before - like living in an old house.

I also agree this. When I play some tunes for myself, at home, I always take my Lachenal ( greatly serviced by A.C. Norman ) which has not-so-fast but lovely, sweeter sound :) .


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#29 Bob Tedrow

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 01:05 PM

It sounds like you need to have the vintage instruments serviced. It isn't a big deal for a decent restorer to make an instrument tight and responsive again. That way you get a responsive instrument and that vintage concertina sound.





It ain't necessarily so. I have a sneaking suspicion that many early Lachenal concertinas were huffy chuffy and marginally responsive when they were brand new.

I once bought on looks alone, a Lachenal that was almost dead mint and unplayed. It was stored properly and had no mold or detritus apparent.

It was disappointing and underwhelming to the last reed.

Bob

#30 Paul Read

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 01:29 PM

It sounds like you need to have the vintage instruments serviced. It isn't a big deal for a decent restorer to make an instrument tight and responsive again. That way you get a responsive instrument and that vintage concertina sound.





It ain't necessarily so. I have a sneaking suspicion that many early Lachenal concertinas were huffy chuffy and marginally responsive when they were brand new.

I once bought on looks alone, a Lachenal that was almost dead mint and unplayed. It was stored properly and had no mold or detritus apparent.

It was disappointing and underwhelming to the last reed.

Bob


On the other hand there were many good ones, especially some of the rosewoods. I suspect this variability could also be true of the new ones. I think the Button Box will tell you that their current concertinas are quite an improvement on their early ones. Is that not true of yours Bob?

#31 Hooves

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 02:38 PM

So, Ive been playing the fiddle for quite some years and know a good load of tunes. Im happy with my fiddle playing, but I most enjoy playing with a small group, usually a flutist friend and my girlfriend on C#/D box....

Which would be the best choice for the meantime? I like the sound of the older instruments, but do they play as crisply as an Edgley? I know opinions would be varied, but I need to inform my decision as there aren't many concertinas (or concertinists) around to compare with.

Thanks!


So you have decided on a system? Sounds like you'r going for the anglo, I suggest you give Mr. Tedrow a call and put in an order one of his Zephyr boxes.

Of course I'm still waiting for that Tedrow-Crane duet, a fine box it will be.

#32 Guest_Peter Laban_*

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 02:47 PM

It was disappointing and underwhelming to the last reed


Sorry Bob but the reaction you could expect would be: 'You 'd say that wouldn't you?'

Some of the Lachenals (which ones? Mahogany ended, Rosewood ones or their more high end models?) are not fast or particularly great, there are some that are, original ones and 'hot rodded' ones.

My son started learning on a bottom end Mahogany ended Lachenal that wasn't the fastest (but it didn't need to be either) but it sounded nicer (to my ear) than a 'hybrid' and it served him well before he moved up to a nicer Crabb.

So, what you are implying is just about the same sort of blanket statement as for example 'all hybrids sound like little accordeons' and we've had long discussions about how right/wrong that statement is haven't we?

#33 Chris Timson

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 04:04 PM

Well said.

Chris

#34 McIsog

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 09:46 PM

If i make it to your gig next week, I'll bring my Rochelle (and the Henry Harley just for fun), and you can give them a try.



God talk about pushing buttons - OK OK OK
Quality has nothing to do with it either!!! That should add another 22 posts to this thread - LOL!


Sorry, this was meant as a reply to a PM from topic starter. Probably doesn't belong here. Please pardon my newbie enthusiasm (and technical ineptitude) :(


Hey thanks for the update - No Problem - and nothing personal, its all in a days fun.

#35 david_boveri

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 11:32 PM

Just a minor nitpick... I know the Irish have a casual relationship with time, but the last I checked, it was Mrs. Crotty and not Kitty Hayes that was the late one...

--
Bill


Not to put you on the spot Bill and I wish I didn't have to say it, but maybe check again, here


Thanks Peter,
I am sorry.. I haven't been keeping up on here lately as much as I should.. too much going on in my life. At least she along with a few others helped keep concertina music alive back in the 60s and 70s when many didn't care about it. The world is a richer place for her having been here, and a poorer place because she has moved on.

--
Bill


oh man, i had no idea....

it just hit me like a ton of bricks. i am totally speechless.

#36 ceemonster

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 11:04 PM

from experience, my vote will always be for speed & responsiveness (in all of these: button action, reeds, & bellows) over "authentic" voice, every time. i love "authentic" concertina reeds, but the accordion-reeded sound has its own loveliness, and the advantages to the development of one's playing---yes, speed, but not just speed---phrasing, ease of ornamentation, expression, etc---of a fast, easy, responsive accordion-reeded concertina versus a more labored, huffy-wuffy concertina-reeded instrument, would be no contest. of course, not all "hybrids" are optimally fast & responsive, that's the rub......




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