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#1 KeithB

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 04:37 PM

My father-in-law has presented me with his father's concertina, which he's asked me to sell on his behalf. Apparently it was made in 1924 - it has a number on it 30363. Apparently it's a 64 Key Wheatstone English Tenor. This was refurbished about 20 years ago - and has sat in a box ever since. To me it looks in immaculate condition - please see pictures attached.

So I need some advice on two points.

Firstly can anyone give me a very ballpark valuation? Secondly where is the bext place to sell this?

Many thanks in advance

Keith

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#2 Bill Crossland

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 05:26 PM

October 1924

http://www.horniman....ES/D2P0250L.HTM

And it will be a cracker!

#3 Pete Dunk

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 05:49 PM

So it's a 64 key baritone not a 64 key tenor. Wow. Leave it open to offers for a while on here Keith, much better than the lottery on ebay. Value? I'd take someone with more experience than I have to name a figure but a handsome sum, sadly more than I could raise but I'm still dribbling at the prospect!

#4 JimLucas

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 06:43 PM

So it's a 64 key baritone not a 64 key tenor.

What's the bottom note? If it's C below middle C, then the instrument is a tenor-treble (TT). If it's the F below that, it's a baritone-treble (BT).

The model number 16 in the ledger would normally indicate a baritone-treble. But there are a few known instances in the ledger where the model number matches the size of the actual instrument, not its range... e.g., a treble in a piccolo body, or a BT in a TT. IF this is a TT, rather than the BT that the ledger indicates, then it would have larger-than-normal chambers, and I would expect an especially rich tone.

Keith, can you tell us for sure, based on the instrument's lowest note?

#5 spindizzy

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 11:56 AM

My father-in-law has presented me with his father's concertina, which he's asked me to sell on his behalf. Apparently it was made in 1924 - it has a number on it 30363. Apparently it's a 64 Key Wheatstone English Tenor. This was refurbished about 20 years ago - and has sat in a box ever since. To me it looks in immaculate condition - please see pictures attached.


Keith,

Could you let us know where you're based (roughly) in case some of us would like to come and drool over it in person!
(My husband won't let me have another concertina .... :( )

#6 KeithB

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 09:52 AM

My father-in-law has presented me with his father's concertina, which he's asked me to sell on his behalf. Apparently it was made in 1924 - it has a number on it 30363. Apparently it's a 64 Key Wheatstone English Tenor. This was refurbished about 20 years ago - and has sat in a box ever since. To me it looks in immaculate condition - please see pictures attached.


Keith,

Could you let us know where you're based (roughly) in case some of us would like to come and drool over it in person!
(My husband won't let me have another concertina .... :( )



We're based in hertfordshire - clearly had no idea this was as interesting as it appears to be. Happy for people to swing around.

#7 KeithB

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 10:01 AM

So it's a 64 key baritone not a 64 key tenor.

What's the bottom note? If it's C below middle C, then the instrument is a tenor-treble (TT). If it's the F below that, it's a baritone-treble (BT).

The model number 16 in the ledger would normally indicate a baritone-treble. But there are a few known instances in the ledger where the model number matches the size of the actual instrument, not its range... e.g., a treble in a piccolo body, or a BT in a TT. IF this is a TT, rather than the BT that the ledger indicates, then it would have larger-than-normal chambers, and I would expect an especially rich tone.

Keith, can you tell us for sure, based on the instrument's lowest note?


Sorry I've no idea how to get the lowest note, and even then i've no ability (as I'm tone deaf) to know what that note is. Sorry not being very helpful am I. But unfortunately that's why I'm here. I there anyway I can find out this information with my massively limited skills?

#8 Chris Drinkwater

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 03:03 PM

We're based in hertfordshire - clearly had no idea this was as interesting as it appears to be. Happy for people to swing around.



Where in Hertfordshire are you based Keith? I live in London and could possibly come out and have a look at it and assess it for you, as I play the English system concertina myself.

Chris

#9 KeithB

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 03:10 PM

We're based in hertfordshire - clearly had no idea this was as interesting as it appears to be. Happy for people to swing around.



Where in Hertfordshire are you based Keith? I live in London and could possibly come out and have a look at it and assess it for you, as I play the English system concertina myself.

Chris


I live in hertford. Alternatively I work in the centre of London most days and could obviously bring it in if this is helpful.

Appreciate the assistance.

#10 rob_mcsweeney

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 07:23 PM

Unless you are urgently in need of the money, please reconsider selling.

You have a very lovely, and quite valuable concertina , which is also a part of your family history. As an instrument, you would find it hard to find a comparable replacement - as a part of your family heritage, it is irreplacable.

Are there any younger members of the family who might be interested in learning?

As long as you store it carefully, it will not deteriorate,and will continue to appreciate in value.

regards,

Rob.

#11 Dirge

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 04:04 AM

That's Rob's view. I, on the other hand, would say that if no one in the family has an immediate interest in it you should sell it, use the money (more than you are doing with the squeezebox) and let some other party who will appreciate the instrument properly have a chance. Hoarding it away deprives someone who would use it as it was intended of the chance to so do.

Taking this to extremes, if everyone kept their grandad's instrument against some possible future interest by some possible future generation of the family I would not have been able to take the duet concertina up as I would not have been able to buy one; there would be no Jeffries' for the Anglo enthusiasts to buy, no Strad. violins being played by top players as they would all be festering in non-players lofts or being used by the boy at the school concert etc etc..

Sorry Rob, but I feel very strongly about this one. It is mean to sit on a rare item for sentiment's sake when a real enthusiast would give his eye teeth for it and there is a finite supply.

(In most cases I doubt it is what the original player would have wanted either. "Grandad, when you're gone, would you like me to stick your concertina in its box and never touch it until I'm dead too in the hope some future generation will want it one day, or sell it to an enthusiast who will play it so I can use the money to buy something worthwhile for your grandchildren?". What do you think he'd say?)

#12 Mike Pierceall

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 11:14 AM

(In most cases I doubt it is what the original player would have wanted either. "Grandad, when you're gone, would you like me to stick your concertina in its box and never touch it until I'm dead too in the hope some future generation will want it one day, or sell it to an enthusiast who will play it so I can use the money to buy something worthwhile for your grandchildren?". What do you think he'd say?)

You could keep it as an investment until you really need the money - a form of insurance, really. The extra cash at the right moment for emergency purposes or just to give yourself something you really want or need. I would guess that it is appreciating in value more than a savings account. Mike

#13 danersen

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 03:06 PM

Perhaps I missed somthing. I apologize if I did.

Keith's initial post states that his father-in-law specifically presented this concertina to Keith to sell on his behalf. I'm wondering if we have really been helpful to him given his stated purpose for posting. Has anyone been able to thoughtfully consider his original questions:

Firstly can anyone give me a very ballpark valuation? Secondly where is the bext place to sell this?

This information could prove very helpful to Keith and his father-in-law for a sale to an unknown party or if someone in the family wishes to provide compensation to Keith's father-in-law for the purpose of "keeping it in the family."

The "romance" of "keeping it in the family" may or may not be practical or feasible. Not knowing (and not wanting to) Keith's father-in-law's circumstances or motivation, it seems to me that the most important matter is fair and appropriate valuation of the concertina and just compensation to Keith's father-in-law regardless of the identify or interests of the next purchaser.

Is there no one among this august group who is willing to even hazard a guess in response to Keith's original questions? It's nteresting to me that the usual "take it to Chris Algar" advice hasn't even been tendered.

I'm also curious if anyone who offered was able to visit with Keith and/or the concertina and if it is a TT or a BT.

Be Well,

Dan

#14 Paul Read

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 03:28 PM

Is there no one among this august group who is willing to even hazard a guess in response to Keith's original questions? It's nteresting to me that the usual "take it to Chris Algar" advice hasn't even been tendered.
Dan


Well, it's 1924 (late best period) and probably needs some work (retune valves etc). It looks to be a nice one. ^4 buttons is usually something of a downside. Assuming it's a tenor-treble extended up and based on recent prices for Wheatstone aeolas, I would hazard it to be worth about GBP1800 (to allow for the work). However you'll note there are a few assumptions here and I wouldn't normally do this because the market sets the value (i.e. if someone wants it enough and there is competition it may fetch more).

#15 Pete Dunk

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 04:44 PM

I'm also curious if anyone who offered was able to visit with Keith and/or the concertina and if it is a TT or a BT.


Therein lies the problem you see. As Paul said, for some reason an extended (64 key)TT is less desirable than a 56 key, I can see it in a way because I wouldn't go out of my way to buy an extended treble in fact I'd take it grudgingly knowing I would never venture into the upper reaches. A true Baritone/Treble is a horse of a different colour however and would vastly increase the valuation. Would you have us raise Keith's hopes by overvaluing a TT by presuming it's a BT only to shave the best part of 500 pounds or more off if we were wrong?

I think the natural reserve shown by members of the board is good, far better to err on the side of caution than to raise false hope. Even an expert would be hard put to give a 'ballpark' valuation without knowing what range of instrument we are dealing with but as you've forced my hand I'd say it's worth between 1500 and 2800 depending on general condition and nature of the beast. This valuation is academic of course because I'm without sufficient funds to make a serious bid so if Keith is watching my best advice is to ignore this post. ;)

#16 david robertson

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 04:58 PM

Is there no one among this august group who is willing to even hazard a guess in response to Keith's original questions? It's nteresting to me that the usual "take it to Chris Algar" advice hasn't even been tendered.
Dan


Well, it's 1924 (late best period) and probably needs some work (retune valves etc). It looks to be a nice one. ^4 buttons is usually something of a downside. Assuming it's a tenor-treble extended up and based on recent prices for Wheatstone aeolas, I would hazard it to be worth about GBP1800 (to allow for the work). However you'll note there are a few assumptions here and I wouldn't normally do this because the market sets the value (i.e. if someone wants it enough and there is competition it may fetch more).


Sounds a bit light to me, Paul. I just sold a late-ish (1949) extended treble Aeola to a friend for 1950. (Steve Dickinson suggested 2000 to 2500.) Admittedly there seems to be some doubt about the range of this one, but it's clearly a cracker, and if it was refurbished 20 years ago, it may well already be in concert pitch.
I did actually suggest a word with Chris Algar a couple of days ago, but my reply seems to have got lost in the ether. I also suggested that there would be several readers of this forum who would be happy to pay 2000 for it - mainly on the grounds that I would expect it to fetch at least 2500 when restored.

#17 Mike Pierceall

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 05:04 PM

Perhaps I missed somthing. I apologize if I did.

Keith's initial post states that his father-in-law specifically presented this concertina to Keith to sell on his behalf.

Uh, oh. I guess the thread moved sideways. My apologies. Chris Algar offers an appraisal service for a nominal fee, I believe. Mike

#18 Paul Read

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 05:46 PM

Sounds a bit light to me, Paul. I just sold a late-ish (1949) extended treble Aeola to a friend for 1950. (Steve Dickinson suggested 2000 to 2500.) Admittedly there seems to be some doubt about the range of this one, but it's clearly a cracker, and if it was refurbished 20 years ago, it may well already be in concert pitch.
I did actually suggest a word with Chris Algar a couple of days ago, but my reply seems to have got lost in the ether. I also suggested that there would be several readers of this forum who would be happy to pay 2000 for it - mainly on the grounds that I would expect it to fetch at least 2500 when restored.

Hi Dave, That's why it's best to avoid giving this sort of advice. Ah well. I actually missed the bit about it being restored 20 years back. I started at GBP2500 for a 56b restored tenor treble and reduced it to allow for work and for the extra buttons. If I'd put a range it would have been upwards. I looked through the records for the last few years and as usual the prices are variable but your 2k would be in the ballpark I think (say 1900 to 2200?). Restored it may be a bit more.




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