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Wrist Straps On Ec


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#37 Henrik Müller

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:22 PM

Perhaps I didn't explain the way I (can) use dynamics on my EC. It can be very rough at times and I give my EC a hard time. It has nothing to do with the way Wim Wakker or Pauline de Snoo or even Alistair Anderson employ dynamics. I am afraid my EC gets a severe beating from time to time :lol:
I use my bellows much more than most other EC players I saw playing. I also build up pressure to get some effects/ornamentation.
Hermann

Now, here's a man I can identify with! (I have a feeling that I have said that before :rolleyes:, in which case I apologize).

As a comment to "Wrist straps On EC", I have placed a (very short) clip on YouTube: Reel in the Kitchen

So - can the basic English concertina design be improved? Yes, I my opinion it can - I have played the d.... thing for 30 years and it is only now, with a redesigned instrument, that I can express what I want. On top of that, my thumb joints have been playing up for several years now, to the point where I can hardly play an "ordinary " EC. But with this one? No problem...

Sorry about the bad audio quality - I didn't have a "real" video camera at hand, I got carried away and did it with my Canon IXUS 70. Future videos should be better, and with more focus on fingering :D

/Henrik

#38 tallship

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 06:17 AM

Well Done Henrik, more please! :D

#39 buikligger

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 06:55 AM

Hello Henrik and all,

that's impressive stuff! Can you be more specific about the place of the attachments for the straps? At what distances from the corner point in your hand? Is the strap adjustable? Lower side or upper side? what's the length of the strap?

kind greetings

Dirk, Blegium

#40 Henrik Müller

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 12:35 PM

Hello Henrik and all,

that's impressive stuff! Can you be more specific about the place of the attachments for the straps? At what distances from the corner point in your hand? Is the strap adjustable? Lower side or upper side? what's the length of the strap?

kind greetings

Dirk, Blegium

Hello, Dirk -
Glad you liked it!

Now - I think it is important to be aware that this isn't a standard EC with straps added. Here are the three specific things I changed in the design:
  • I changed the spacing between the buttons is different, and asymmetrical, see drawing
  • I added an angled handrest and a handstrap
  • I let the buttons go all the way down, see photo.
With the buttons - the spacing and length of travel... it has to be both, not one or the other. The spacing was
copied from the mini Stagi, simply because it felt right.

The strap is screwed into the side of the handrest (a threaded brass insert, actually from the mini Stagi),
and in the other end with a simple flathead screw into a small (Wakker) brass insert, set flush with the wood
of the endbox.

A couple of holes in the strap makes it adjustable. The holes were punched when I felt the need for them
- when the leather had streched a little

Yes, it is an ugly screw!

In the beginning I had a Wakker thumbscrew instead (you can see a vague depression in the leather still), but since
the common sense-part of my head must have been on a holiday when the decision was made, it lasted about 1 year.
Since it was very wide, 20 mm, an enormous stress was put on it during playing because the handstrap would pull at
an angle of 30-40 degrees. So in the end there was no thread left and the strap would pop off in the middle of playing.

Here's the spacing (mms, ;) ):

Spacing.gif

- the handrest & strap:
AngledRest.jpg


- a button fully depressed:
ButtonDown.jpg

- the adjustment of the strap:
StrapAdjust.jpg


One comment about the handrest: the size and shape was picked directly out of thin air. Now, after
1 1/2 year of playing it, it is very clear that it needs to be changed so it fits the hand a little better
- as can be seen here:

TheCorner.jpg


/Henrik

#41 chiton1

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 07:58 PM

As a comment to "Wrist straps On EC", I have placed a (very short) clip on YouTube: Reel in the Kitchen
[/quote]

Thanks for the great music Henrik. It shows what you can do with your ''strap system''. Perhaps I am missing something but why can't I see the regular 48 (or 56) button design in your EC?
I will try to put some music of mine on YouTube in the near future. All this concertina (and non concertina) chitchat on Concertinanet is great, but it is the music made by all of us that really count. I am always interested in how people play, no matter if they are beginners or 30 years experience pros. So the more music made available the better. Although I know I should give a good example myself :(
Hermann

#42 Henrik Müller

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 05:00 AM

Thanks for the great music Henrik. It shows what you can do with your ''strap system''. Perhaps I am missing something but why can't I see the regular 48 (or 56) button design in your EC?
I will try to put some music of mine on YouTube in the near future. All this concertina (and non concertina) chitchat on Concertinanet is great, but it is the music made by all of us that really count. I am always interested in how people play, no matter if they are beginners or 30 years experience pros. So the more music made available the better. Although I know I should give a good example myself :(
Hermann

Très bon, merci, Hermann -
In the shower this morning I realized that I hadn't listed all the
differences between my instrument and a standard EC.

One of them is of course the number of buttons:
The mini Stagi, which started all this has 18 buttons ans that's a bit on the low side :D .
So I sat down and played all tunes I could think off, to find the coverage I needed. And I
glued little paper dots on the sides to mark the missing buttons and ended with 27. So a
lot of bs and #s are missing, hence the peculiar look of the layout. Should have been 28...

In my well-plannedness, I forgot that the position of the high C was in the "hole part" of
the Stagi's fretwork, so there was no paper dot. And since considerable time went by before
I actually started making serious drawings, I only took one look at the Stagi and said: "Right,
that's buttons I'll need" and started drawing. Much later, I realized the mistake :ph34r:

Anyway - the fact that all the buttons up there in the eternal snow are gone, brings us to the
next difference: the whole cluster of buttons are moved upwards, approximately the vertical
distance between the buttons. This facilitates reaching lower notes.

Finally, the thumbstrap. On a standard EC, I will place the end joint my of my thumbs in the
straps (again to reach the lows). And my thumbs don't like that, probably due to the playing
style - I use the bellows a lot, and the pull, with the thumbs in that position definitely don't
agree with me. But the thumbstrap is still there, yes?

The new thumbstrap is only half the width of a standard strap and it is positioned on the
instrument so that the thumb is meant to go all the way in. It acts merely as a guide, there
is no strain on the thumbs - all the pulling force is on the handstraps.

So, to summarize all the changes:

1) Wider spacing between buttons, asymmetrical: more space horizontally
2) Lots of bs and #s are removed (also the need for space was considered - accordion reeds need more room)
3) The button cluster is offset one button upwards
4) The buttons go all the way down (I can feel the hole on the finger tip)
5) A handsrest, angled 15 degrees
6) A handstrap, coming up between the thumb and index finger, going back almost in the corner hand/arm
7) A thumbstrap, half width, positioned so the thumb goes all the way through

That's all!

/Henrik

#43 JimLucas

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 05:13 AM

Thanks for the great music Henrik. It shows what you can do with your ''strap system''. Perhaps I am missing something but why can't I see the regular 48 (or 56) button design in your EC?

In the shower this morning I realized that I hadn't listed all the
differences between my instrument and a standard EC.

...

That's all!

No, Henrik, that's not all.
You didn't state the most significant detail, although what you did say does imply it:

You didn't simply modify an existing instrument; you built it yourself, "from scratch". :)



#44 chris

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 06:37 AM

Hi
nice concertina (watched it being built) but is it an 'english'? - it's obviously not an anglo and it's not a duet perhaps its a 'swedish' (or where ever Henrik comes from) maybe we have a new 'type' to add to the list. B)
chris (appreciative of the skill involved in its manufacture)

#45 fiddlerjoebob

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 07:03 AM

Please say more about why the buttons must go all the way down.

Oh, and, very nice craftsmenship, indeed....

Randy

#46 Leo

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 10:52 AM

.............................
As a comment to "Wrist straps On EC", I have placed a (very short) clip on YouTube: Reel in the Kitchen
............
/Henrik

I'm not sure if you caught it yet but there is a response to your video that echoes the same sentiments:

"Added: March 16, 2008
wrist support and wrist straps facilitate bellows work"

Re: Paddy Taylor's, on English concertina
http://www.youtube.c...dj_CJNbF8&fmt=6

Thanks :)
Leo

#47 Larry Stout

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 12:31 PM

"Added: March 16, 2008
wrist support and wrist straps facilitate bellows work"

Re: Paddy Taylor's, on English concertina
http://www.youtube.c...dj_CJNbF8&fmt=6

Thanks :)
Leo

Is that actually an English concertina? I see no thumb straps and the bellows technique looks more like what I'd expect on an anglo. The buttons aren't visible. Nicely played in a style I haven't heard on either EC or anglo.

#48 tony

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 12:40 PM

"Added: March 16, 2008
wrist support and wrist straps facilitate bellows work"

Re: Paddy Taylor's, on English concertina
http://www.youtube.c...dj_CJNbF8&fmt=6

Thanks :)
Leo

Is that actually an English concertina? I see no thumb straps and the bellows technique looks more like what I'd expect on an anglo. The buttons aren't visible. Nicely played in a style I haven't heard on either EC or anglo.



Look again. He is using thumb straps and wrist straps.

Hinrik is using thumb straps and hand straps.

#49 chiton1

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 01:07 PM

Thanks Henrik. Are you never afraid that you will stumble upon a piece of music you want to play in which you will need one or more of the deleted buttons?

Larry, I can see thumb straps on the concertina video, so I think it is an EC alright.
Hermann

#50 Larry Stout

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 01:13 PM

Now I see them.

Two of my EC's came with the hardware for attaching wrist straps, though without the straps themselves. Indeed one of them indicates in the Horiman ledgers that it originally had wrist straps. I tend to anchor one end of the instrument on my knee, so I haven't felt any need for the straps. If I played standing I might want straps on my tenor-treble (it's the heaviest of my instruments).

#51 Henrik Müller

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 03:49 PM

Please say more about why the buttons must go all the way down.

Oh, and, very nice craftsmenship, indeed....

Randy

Thanks, Randy -

I'll answer you and Chris and more in the same response - I have time for it, since heavy winds and
snow and dropping temperatures stopped me from driving to a St.Patrick's session in Elsingborg,
just across Denmark's Elsinore - you know: Shakespeare, Hamlet (and Jim Lucas :D, thanks, Jim).

Let come to the bottom of the buttons
I am not saying the buttons must go all the way down - but once I tried it, I experienced
a great relief by not having to bang my fingertops into little metal pins. Eh, pins? To me, that is
what it felt like after some time. But what I didn't suspect - that was the bonus - was that it allowed
me to play differently - better, IMHO. I will set up a video that demonstrates it, with a suitable tune
("My Love is in America", I can reveal now). I am sure that that will kick off another video with
someone doing the same on ordinary buttons :D ... which is fine, of course.

An English?
Of course it is an English - I think many are thrown off track by the silly looks of the layout.
Even in Ireland - I was playing in the Cobblestone in Dublin last August and it took a few tunes before
someone said: "Ahhm - that's not a normal concertina, is it, now?". Though I am Danish, I understand that
that name is taken, and I wouldn't want my instrument be associated with something you have with coffee.

Edited the next day:
No one - myself included - pointed out that one very EC item is missing: the finger rest. When I did my
"research" = modified the miniStagi until I was content, a finger rest was never in question. Stagi had already
removed it, to replace it by a coarse leather strap, making the instrument playable only by aliens or other
beings with non-terrestial physiology... The photo on Stagi site is the old one - still with the finger rest.
End of edit.

Hermann: Tunes using the non-existing buttons? Sure - it has happened already. Mind, a major contributor
to the reduced layout was space and even that was a gamble- I didn't have the Antonelli reeds when I
decided the number of buttons and it is a wonder of this world how Richard Morse manages to queeze in
37 notes, I think it is, in his instruments. Should I ever decide to build another it would be with concertina reeds,
which would involve a lot of work.

And, oh: the response video is an English concertina, modified in ways which are different to see.

/Henrik

Edited by Henrik Müller, 18 March 2008 - 04:21 AM.


#52 buikligger

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 10:29 AM

Hi Henrik , Hermann and all,

i got some inspiration from you. As I'm not so handy as you are i can only rely on my brains for solutions.

This is my solution for the moment. I took off the little finger rests since i didn't use them anyhow. I cut myself two curved rubber hand straps from the inner tire of a car and put some holes in it. The upper side i fixed with the big round bolt, the lower side i fixed with the screw in the middle from the finger rest. The left side plays best when i insert my 5 fingers, and put my thumb into the thumb strap (I use middle, ring finger and little finger for the notes). At the right side i put thumb and 3 fingers through the loop and the little finger outside the loop (I use index, middle and ring finger for the buttons). It's not according to the rules, but for me it works: i don't have pain in my thumbs after having played for several hours yesterday.

kind greetings

from

Dirk , Belgium

#53 m3838

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 12:17 PM

Hi Henrik , Hermann and all,

i got some inspiration from you. As I'm not so handy as you are i can only rely on my brains for solutions.

This is my solution for the moment. I took off the little finger rests since i didn't use them anyhow. I cut myself two curved rubber hand straps from the inner tire of a car and put some holes in it. The upper side i fixed with the big round bolt, the lower side i fixed with the screw in the middle from the finger rest. The left side plays best when i insert my 5 fingers, and put my thumb into the thumb strap (I use middle, ring finger and little finger for the notes). At the right side i put thumb and 3 fingers through the loop and the little finger outside the loop (I use index, middle and ring finger for the buttons). It's not according to the rules, but for me it works: i don't have pain in my thumbs after having played for several hours yesterday.

kind greetings

from

Dirk , Belgium

What do you mean "curved"?
A picture perhaps?
I am a bit reluctunt to take off pinkey rests. I'm afraid to lose them and have a hard time re-selling in case if...

#54 buikligger

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 12:46 PM

Hi Henrik , Hermann and all,

i got some inspiration from you. As I'm not so handy as you are i can only rely on my brains for solutions.

This is my solution for the moment. I took off the little finger rests since i didn't use them anyhow. I cut myself two curved rubber hand straps from the inner tire of a car and put some holes in it.
Dirk , Belgium



What do you mean "curved"?
A picture perhaps?
I am a bit reluctunt to take off pinkey rests. I'm afraid to lose them and have a hard time re-selling in case if...


Hi M3838,

Curved: I try to upload a drawing from the Right hand side.
No problem in taking the pink rests off. I didn't drill in new holes, so i can restore it in it's original way in one minute. No loss of worth.

Attached File  wrist_straps.bmp   576.05KB   430 downloads

Dirk




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