Jump to content


Photo

Morse Or Edgeley?


  • Please log in to reply
67 replies to this topic

#19 Guest_Old Leaky_*

Guest_Old Leaky_*
  • Guests

Posted 16 November 2007 - 12:57 PM

And speaking of prices... our boxes and Jeffries are in completely different classes. It's hardly fair to compare our $1825 US (882 GBP, 1252 EUR) boxes with $8000 Jeffries.

-- Rich --


Or $3267 US if your UK buyers are still gullible enough to buy one from The Music Room (England) at their ridiculously inflated price of 1579 GBP - and it has gone up despite the weak dollar! WHY? :o

#20 tmborden

tmborden

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 11 posts

Posted 16 November 2007 - 08:32 PM

while we're on the subject of the hybrids vs. concertina-reeded, what are people's thoughts about the Morse/Edgley concertinas versus a Lachenal concertina-reeded instrument? in that comparison we're dealing in roughly the same price ballpark, or at least closer than the jeffries. i know there is a wide variation of quality in the lachenals, but any impressions or opinions would be appreciated.
tom

#21 JimLucas

JimLucas

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10127 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 17 November 2007 - 03:16 AM

while we're on the subject of the hybrids vs. concertina-reeded, what are people's thoughts about the Morse/Edgley concertinas versus a Lachenal concertina-reeded instrument? in that comparison we're dealing in roughly the same price ballpark, or at least closer than the jeffries. i know there is a wide variation of quality in the lachenals, but any impressions or opinions would be appreciated.

My impression/opinion is that there's a wide variation of quality in the Lachenals.

If you really want to compare, then you need to restrict yourself in two ways:
  • Condition: Only a fully restored, concert-pitch Lachenal counts, since there's no added expense in getting a brand new instrument into top condition. An unrestored Lachenal (or other make) not only involves expense before it's properly playable, unless you yourself are an expert the extent of the expense can rarely be known in advance of purchase. (A possible exception is if you can get the repairer to inspect the instrument and quote a price before you decide whether to purchase.)
  • Price: The price of the Lachenal must be in the same range as the Morse, Edgley, or other hybrids. This would almost certainly exclude anything with more than 31 buttons, or deluxe instruments like the New Model.
Because of the variation in quality among Lachenals, I would hesitate to buy one if I couldn't play it, first. With the Morse, I wouldn't hesitate; I know the Morse. Nor would I hesitate with the Edgley, based on the many evaluations expressed here on C.net by those who have played them.

#22 Woody

Woody

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 930 posts
  • Location:Malmesbury, Wiltshire, UK

Posted 17 November 2007 - 04:02 AM

I have a great old Jeffries but I am more than a bit nervous about traveling with a concertina
worth more than anything else I own, aside from my house.

Given that whatever you buy as an alternate box is likely to seem inferior to your Jeffries and will still cost an appreciable amount of cash, why don't you save yourself a lot of money and just insure it? That way you get to take the Jeffries out to play and you don't have to worry about how much its worth.

#23 Guest_Old Leaky_*

Guest_Old Leaky_*
  • Guests

Posted 17 November 2007 - 04:56 AM

I have a great old Jeffries but I am more than a bit nervous about traveling with a concertina
worth more than anything else I own, aside from my house.

Given that whatever you buy as an alternate box is likely to seem inferior to your Jeffries and will still cost an appreciable amount of cash, why don't you save yourself a lot of money and just insure it? That way you get to take the Jeffries out to play and you don't have to worry about how much its worth.


Easier said than done where hard-to-find vintage instruments are concerned. Whereas an insurer will expect a verifiable valuation figure and accept the risk on that basis, if anything actually happens to it e.g. worse case scenario - it gets stolen, then what are you going to do with the money? In these times, finding, let alone buying, a like replacement is going to be difficult and time consuming - we all know it's a very competitive field. Less so with an "off-the shelf" (notwithstanding wait times) instrument like a Morse. So there is method...

#24 David Levine

David Levine

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 997 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Co Clare, Ireland / Hopkinton, NH, USA

Posted 17 November 2007 - 05:12 AM

I have a great old Jeffries but I am more than a bit nervous about traveling with a concertina
worth more than anything else I own, aside from my house.

Given that whatever you buy as an alternate box is likely to seem inferior to your Jeffries and will still cost an appreciable amount of cash, why don't you save yourself a lot of money and just insure it? That way you get to take the Jeffries out to play and you don't have to worry about how much its worth.


I'm reading these posts and enjoying this discussion a lot. I'll tell you all what I learned and ended up with after people have stopped commenting. I've been playing concertina going on twenty years now.
(A bit off topic, but...) By the way, I went to a wonderful session last night that restored my faith in sessions- it was at a small pub in Cree, Co. Clare. Aside from a whistle, a flute, two banjos and a guitar, there were seven concertinas in attendance, never playing all at once, thank God (forgive spelling errors): Shea Fogarty, Frank McNamara, Tom Driscoll, Colin Sheehan and his Japanese friend, Mark Davies, and Tom Carey. Not me. Out-classed, I played my flute all night. I was surrounded by great musicians.
It's a movable feast and we're going to do it again tonight. It was a relief to play after a spell of disappointing sessions in this changing Ireland. Jigs and reels exclusively, non-stop from ten to two in the morning, not a single hornpipe, and some great singing from West Clare locals.
Re: insurance- that might be expensive for an instrument valued at well over $10,000. And even if I were recompensed for the loss, I doubt it would be very easy to find a comparable instrument off the shelf. I always and only travel with carry-on luggage, which includes a lap-top and a flute. I'd like to minimize the stress level a bit by not having to worry about a practically irreplaceable instrument. And who wants to deal with a recalcitrant insurance company after a big loss? Not me.

#25 Woody

Woody

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 930 posts
  • Location:Malmesbury, Wiltshire, UK

Posted 17 November 2007 - 08:36 AM

Re: insurance- that might be expensive for an instrument valued at well over $10,000.

Not sure about Ireland. A quote for a Concertina worth 5000 (including cover accidental loss, damage or theft - including from an unattended car & travel worldwide - and also accessories upto 500), for my area (Wiltshire, UK) comes to 118 for the year with the Allianz Classic Play policy. Cover includes hire of a suitable instrument while any repairs are being made. It also includes automatic cover for any other instrument coming into your care for 14 days, upto a value of 1000.

Full policy details here

I've got my Anglo insured with these, not least to cover me if I drop it.


And who wants to deal with a recalcitrant insurance company after a big loss? Not me.

See this discussion at The Session

#26 Richard Morse

Richard Morse

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1211 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western Massachusetts, USA

Posted 17 November 2007 - 09:34 AM

Given that whatever you buy as an alternate box is likely to seem inferior to your Jeffries and will still cost an appreciable amount of cash, why don't you save yourself a lot of money and just insure it? That way you get to take the Jeffries out to play and you don't have to worry about how much its worth.

The problem is that if your box gets stolen or destroyed all you have left is the insurance money. It may be acceptable for some people to replace it with a "lesser" anglo or English - there are a lot of very good boxes out there and in time there's a good chance that you'll be able to get one of the same caliber again. I have a Wheatstone Hayden. Yes, it's insured but what happens if mine goes south? A Stagi Hayden isn't acceptable and Steve Dickinson isn't going to stop all his work and make one for me.

Insurance isn't always the answer to worry.

-- Rich --

#27 Tootler

Tootler

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 287 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Middlesbrough, UK

Posted 17 November 2007 - 05:21 PM

And speaking of prices... our boxes and Jeffries are in completely different classes. It's hardly fair to compare our $1825 US (882 GBP, 1252 EUR) boxes with $8000 Jeffries.

-- Rich --


Or $3267 US if your UK buyers are still gullible enough to buy one from The Music Room (England) at their ridiculously inflated price of 1579 GBP - and it has gone up despite the weak dollar! WHY? :o


I am one of those "gullible" people though when I bought mine the dollar wasn't as weak against the pound as it is now.

A few months after buying it, after similar, though less strongly worded comments on this forum, I did a check on prices. Once you added 17.5% VAT and allowed for shipping and customs, the prices came out not that far apart - close enough to suggest their profit margin was not unreasonable. Add to that, by going to the Music Room in person, I was able to try out several concertinas first and was able to walk out with a brand new instrument there and then. These last two especially the opportunity to try first, vital in my book when spending that much money, made the price differential worthwhile. I also found the Music Room's sales staff very helpful another unquantifiable advantage.

Geoff

#28 Guest_Old Leaky_*

Guest_Old Leaky_*
  • Guests

Posted 17 November 2007 - 06:17 PM

And speaking of prices... our boxes and Jeffries are in completely different classes. It's hardly fair to compare our $1825 US (882 GBP, 1252 EUR) boxes with $8000 Jeffries.

-- Rich --


Or $3267 US if your UK buyers are still gullible enough to buy one from The Music Room (England) at their ridiculously inflated price of 1579 GBP - and it has gone up despite the weak dollar! WHY? :o


I am one of those "gullible" people though when I bought mine the dollar wasn't as weak against the pound as it is now.

Geoff


A disservice to your good self Geoff and others like you, and I am now sorry about that, but the intended aim was to elicit a response from The Button Box or, indeed, The Music Room. Whether the latter's (increasing!) price ever costed in favourably for UK buyers is debatable - we still don't know if their mark up is on retail or wholesale prices from the maker?

#29 Richard Morse

Richard Morse

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1211 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western Massachusetts, USA

Posted 17 November 2007 - 07:53 PM

we still don't know if their mark up is on retail or wholesale prices from the maker?

The Button sells our Morse concertinas to the Music Room (and other retailers) at wholesale prices.

-- Rich --

#30 david_boveri

david_boveri

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1061 posts
  • Location:chicago, illinois, usa

Posted 18 November 2007 - 12:09 AM

i prefer the edgley over the morse, simply because of the feel of the instrument in my hands. it takes more work to get music out of an edgley than a jeffries, but i feel the reeds have it in them. you just have to find the sweet spot in the reeds. on the one hand the edgley takes a lot of restraint compared to a jeffries... at first you might feel like you are in a narrow hallway. after a while, the hallway does widen, and it becomes intuitive to get what you want out of it. on the other hand, you cant get the edgley to play as quietly as a jeffries, so you have to play it a little louder (and loud it is! thank goodness) to get to the sweet spot of the reeds.

i have never been able to find the sweet spot on the reeds of the morse ceilis. as richard above states, they are not designed to react the same way that irish musicians generally prefer. that being said, if you are not looking for a sweet spot, the morse concertinas are feel very free and refreshing, and do not take serious concentration.

if you are not going to devote yourself to finding the sweet spot of every reed and getting it to do everything your jeffries can do, then the morse might be a better idea. the edgley is very easy to play, of course, but the morse feels weightless and at first seems to play itself. if you are looking to a companion to your jeffries, with more possibilities in the reeds, then the edgley would fit the bill.

whatever your choice, they are both fine instruments and will help you sleep at night while travelling!

#31 Woody

Woody

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 930 posts
  • Location:Malmesbury, Wiltshire, UK

Posted 18 November 2007 - 05:35 AM

Given that whatever you buy as an alternate box is likely to seem inferior to your Jeffries and will still cost an appreciable amount of cash, why don't you save yourself a lot of money and just insure it? That way you get to take the Jeffries out to play and you don't have to worry about how much its worth.

The problem is that if your box gets stolen or destroyed all you have left is the insurance money. It may be acceptable for some people to replace it with a "lesser" anglo or English - there are a lot of very good boxes out there and in time there's a good chance that you'll be able to get one of the same caliber again. I have a Wheatstone Hayden. Yes, it's insured but what happens if mine goes south? A Stagi Hayden isn't acceptable and Steve Dickinson isn't going to stop all his work and make one for me.

Insurance isn't always the answer to worry.

-- Rich --

Of course while you're out and about playing your "lesser" instrument, somebody might be breaking into your house and nicking your unattended Wheatstone :ph34r: ;)

#32 David Levine

David Levine

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 997 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Co Clare, Ireland / Hopkinton, NH, USA

Posted 18 November 2007 - 06:47 AM

Woody, you wouldn't by any chance be an insurance salesman?

#33 Jim Besser

Jim Besser

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2363 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington DC metro area

Posted 18 November 2007 - 11:27 AM

My take on the hybrid vs. traditional issue:

Some of the hybrids sound great. I've tried them all; most play as well or better than most of the vintage instruments I've played.

None of them have the cutting power of a Jeffries, a good Wheatstone, or my Dipperized Lachenal with traditional reeds. The purity of the tone, perhaps, gives these instruments a punch that cuts through noise in a way no hybrid can.

When I'm amplified at contra dances, I love playing the Morse; the sound is fantastic, and I find it extremely fast. In small group settings, I prefer it to anything else.

Playing on the street with noisy Morris dancers, I use the traditional instrument as often as I can. The hybrids just don't have the cutting power.

For that matter, I've never encountered a non-Jeffries traditional instrument with the ability to project of a really good Jeffries. I'm sure they exist; I just haven't played or heard one.

Edited by Jim Besser, 18 November 2007 - 11:49 AM.


#34 Woody

Woody

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 930 posts
  • Location:Malmesbury, Wiltshire, UK

Posted 18 November 2007 - 11:50 AM

Woody, you wouldn't by any chance be an insurance salesman?

Heavens forbid & I've got no axe to grind, I'm just trying to give an alternative viewpoint. For what it's worth, if you're looking for an answer to your question no amount of opinion is going to help you, you'll need to try an Edgley & a Morse to find out which one you'd prefer. However.....


Just seems to me that you've got the Jeffries for a reason.

If you think that a Morse or Edgley is the instrument that enables you to maximise your playing ability and derive the greatest pleasure when playing then great, go for one. I've not tried an Edgley but Morses are fine instruments. But if that's the case you might as well sell the Jeffries because it doesn't offer you anything more for the extra money you've got tied up in it.

If however you believe that the Jeffries is the best instrument for you, it just seems a shame to not take it out for fear of what might but most probably will not happen. Like I said, you could leave it "safe" at home & it could be stolen or your house could burn down, or be hit by a meteorite, or............ :)

Edited by Woody, 18 November 2007 - 02:51 PM.


#35 Guest_Old Leaky_*

Guest_Old Leaky_*
  • Guests

Posted 18 November 2007 - 02:35 PM

we still don't know if their mark up is on retail or wholesale prices from the maker?

The Button sells our Morse concertinas to the Music Room (and other retailers) at wholesale prices.

-- Rich --


Then UK buyers who buy from The Music Room are being taken to the cleaners. I don't know how much you charge individual buyers for insured shipping to the UK but at, let's say, 150 USD, the price inclusive of shipping, import duty (add 3.7%) and value added tax (add 17.5% of the TOTAL) would be in the region of 2400 USD / 1170 GBP for a retail purchase direct from you. The Music Room price of 1579 GBP is one helluva markup over your retail price and who knows what over your wholesale! And every one you ship to them that sits gathering dust on their shelf (I wouldn't be surprised) adds to the wait time for those UK (and other) customers who buy direct.

#36 Richard Morse

Richard Morse

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1211 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western Massachusetts, USA

Posted 18 November 2007 - 04:02 PM

Then UK buyers who buy from The Music Room are being taken to the cleaners.

People have always been able to buy from us directly. The benefit of getting one off the shelf at the Music Room is immediate gratification and that they'll do our warranty work. If you buy it from us directly you'll have to wait a few months to get it and would need to ship it back to us for warranty work (a *very* rare happenstance) or pay to have such work done more locally to you. At least there *is* a choice!

-- Rich --




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users