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#19 frogspawn

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 09:44 AM

I too seem to have developed this condition in my left shoulder. I suddenly noticed it in the night about a week ago and it's got progressively worse during the last few days. It's quite painful and unrelenting. It's particularly bad at night and I haven't been able to get any sleep for three nights running, hence this nocturnal posting. I went to the doctor yesterday. I've been put on anti-inflammatories and told to see a physio if it doesn't improve over the next couple of days.

I don't know if this is connected with concertina playing. Firstly I don't get much time to practice anyway and I haven't been playing very much just lately. I certainly never noticed any discomfort when playing. On the other hand I can't remember suffering a particular trauma and haven't indulged in any other new activities that I can think of.

Richard


Pain and sleep deprivation drove me to the physio earlier than planned. The good news is that this condition was probably caused by my sleeping position (on front with arms tucked under head), which is not advised for older people such as myself! My arm bone acted like some sort of lever crushing the bursa, a sack that lies between the arm bone and the underside of the shoulder. This is known as bursitis. A doctor could explain this more accurately but you get the general idea. The bad news is that it will probably take quite a long time before I can get back to playing.

So although I thought I might be 'suffering for my art' it appears that it is now safe to go back into the water...

Richard

#20 michael sam wild

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 03:56 AM

Hi
I seem to have the same thing in my left shoulder. At the top and under the shoulder blade. I once had it on the right years agowhich I put down to melodeon playing and rock climbing. Rest and a cortisone shot got rid of that.
This one in the left seems to have come on since I got a 26 button Jeffries which has a 'heavier' feel to it. Before that I have played a Lachenal/Connor restoration every day without any symtoms
It was 'lighter' as the reeds were a bit sloppy.

However pain lillers nad anti inflammatories help and good posture.

Funnily enough I have just come back from the Moor and Coast sessions at Whitby over the Holiday Weekend and played two 5 hour sessions each day with fast and furious musicians and it went well! Without medication in form of pills or booze too!

I'm just going to keep going. I have had arthritis in my knees for 10 years but seem to go in and out of action despite x rays showing bone on bone. I don't like pills as they have a lot of nasty side effects and I don't trust surgery unless in extremis
Great discussion thread, very useful. I await the definitive panacea as the jury seems undecided as to cause and treatment.
Mike

#21 David Levine

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 03:08 PM

My shoulder problem is very strange. After a chest workout this morning I took a wee nap and then read a bit, fixed some mowers and then did some mowing with the Swisher, a heavy machine.
It isn't self-driven and it weighs about 80 lbs. I let it roll down hill and then pull it back up, move it a few feet over, and do the same. After an hour of this I was beat- but my shoulder felt better than when I started the day.
At the gym I worked out with push-ups, dips, flys, flat presses, kick-backs, French press and push-downs. I warmed up very slowly and did the exercises very deliberately, feeling the muscles in my shoulder working. The shoulder feels better and it shouldn't. Even after playing the Bb/F anglo for an hour or more this evening. Strange isn't it? I do know that for every two- or three months of working out we should take a break of a week or two of rest and let the organs, as well as the muscles and connective tissue, heal and eliminate toxins that accumulate. But months of rest just isn't an option for me.
Strengthening and stretching seem to be doing more good than total rest. Basically each of us has to learn how much we can do and avoid The Word from on high - from doctors who themselves don't play the concertina or engage in heavy physical exercise.
(And I am among the more senior members of this forum.)

#22 dwinterfield

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 08:23 AM

My surgery was three months ago today. Everything is coming along just fine. My flexibility and range of motion are better than one might expect. Related to this is that the amount of pain has been higher and longer lasting than expected. Iíve been pretty aggressive about PT and doing the various exercises. This likely contributed to the discomfort. I stopped the narcotics in mid April. I donít yet have full range of motion although I can perform all everyday tasks. The only thing thatís still pretty limited is reaching behind my back, aka internal rotation. They tell me thatís always the last thing to come back.

I play most days and have never had pain while playing. I still always ask the docs about playing concertina and the answer is always that itís okay so long as I donít try playing behind my back or over my head.

The most significant caution I get from the docs is that my shoulder has just begun to heal. They warn that reduced pain and the ability to do most normal tasks creates a false sense of security. Reaching for a carton of milk (bottle of whiskey?) falling off the counter could pull the whole thing apart. I can mow the lawn but canít do anything involving a shovel, rake, hammer, chain saw etc. until the Fall.

I now run into lots of people with bad shoulders. Itís a very complex joint and there are lots of things that can go wrong, some structural, some behavioral. There are lots of ways to get improvement and relief from pain. Twenty years ago most docs would probably have said ďa sore shoulder is part of getting older. Take some aspirin and live with it.Ē Now they have lots of ways to make it better. Find the one thatís right and go for it.

#23 David Levine

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Posted 08 May 2008 - 03:19 PM

Surgery seems to have worked for dwinterfield and that's great. But once you're cut there's no going back. I had a total knee replacement 16 months ago and although the recovery has been long and very painful I can walk now, where before it was very difficult. I would do that surgery again because the improvement has brought me back from 20% to 80% of normal- which is about as much as I'm likely to get -- and that's been worth it all.

But if my shoulder stays the way it is -- which is I'd say about 80% of normal -- then an operation to get me to that level of function doesn't really convince me that's the way to go.

Surgeons like to cut. That's their job. "To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail," to quote Mark Twain. I just don't trust them. Thalidomide and lasik eye surgery come to mind. It will be interesting to see how dw's surgery plays out over the coming months. Please keep us informed.

#24 michael sam wild

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 12:33 PM

Surgery seems to have worked for dwinterfield and that's great. But once you're cut there's no going back. I had a total knee replacement 16 months ago and although the recovery has been long and very painful I can walk now, where before it was very difficult. I would do that surgery again because the improvement has brought me back from 20% to 80% of normal- which is about as much as I'm likely to get -- and that's been worth it all.

But if my shoulder stays the way it is -- which is I'd say about 80% of normal -- then an operation to get me to that level of function doesn't really convince me that's the way to go.

Surgeons like to cut. That's their job. "To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail," to quote Mark Twain. I just don't trust them. Thalidomide and lasik eye surgery come to mind. It will be interesting to see how dw's surgery plays out over the coming months. Please keep us informed.



#25 michael sam wild

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 12:39 PM

The problem in UK is mucky hospitals and MRSA or C.diff. Great innit in the land of Florence Nightingale and Joseph Lister.!
Iagree about the knife and will explore the alternatives starting with posture and exercise regimes.. When I went private with my knee he charged the insurers a lot and jabbed me with cortisone! seems to have worked for athletes and it's only once in a blue moon.

#26 michael sam wild

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 10:07 AM

The problem in UK is mucky hospitals and MRSA or C.diff. Great innit in the land of Florence Nightingale and Joseph Lister.!
Iagree about the knife and will explore the alternatives starting with posture and exercise regimes.. When I went private with my knee he charged the insurers a lot and jabbed me with cortisone! seems to have worked for athletes and it's only once in a blue moon.



latest, May 26/08
I've had a layoff and dug the allotment and things are getting better, Dull ache and some pain if i lay on the left side at night but playing OK .

#27 dwinterfield

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 09:38 AM

Mike

The discomfort while lying down is pretty typical. It was my first symptom and, while much improved, still bothers me some in the middle of the night. I asked about it many times and got vague answers. The best answer came from the surgeon - paraphrasing - the shoulder is a socket and wants to be tight all the time. When standing, or otherwise vertical, the socket tends to align properly. When lying down, the weight of the arm pulls the socket in different directions. If the socket (various rotator cuff tendons) is damaged, it goes out of alignment, causing pain.

My surgery was arthroscopic, meaning four very small holes and all the work done with tiny cameras and tools. Sort of like a video game. No stitches. As Cocous has said, surgery is not the answer for all. That said, when the tendon has torn away from the bone, it wonít re-attach by itself.

Good Luck and no playing behind your back!!

Mark

#28 michael sam wild

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 08:28 AM

Mike

The discomfort while lying down is pretty typical. It was my first symptom and, while much improved, still bothers me some in the middle of the night. I asked about it many times and got vague answers. The best answer came from the surgeon - paraphrasing - the shoulder is a socket and wants to be tight all the time. When standing, or otherwise vertical, the socket tends to align properly. When lying down, the weight of the arm pulls the socket in different directions. If the socket (various rotator cuff tendons) is damaged, it goes out of alignment, causing pain.

My surgery was arthroscopic, meaning four very small holes and all the work done with tiny cameras and tools. Sort of like a video game. No stitches. As Cocous has said, surgery is not the answer for all. That said, when the tendon has torn away from the bone, it wonít re-attach by itself.

Good Luck and no playing behind your back!!

Mark



#29 michael sam wild

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Posted 21 June 2008 - 08:33 AM

thanks for reply.
The shoulder seems to be working! Now just to bug me I've got a lump (ganglion?) on the back of my left hand , which doesn't stop me but is referring pain around the back of the hand.
It's about 2cm diam and height and quite hard. It seems to be getting bigger!
HELP!

#30 michael sam wild

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Posted 24 July 2008 - 05:11 AM

Update
'ganglion' on back of hand has disappeared, X ray showed no serious problem , Physio thought as I'd cracked it when doing building work it was a localised swelling. Otherwise just gradual closure of joints in hand bones due to arthritis. Advice from physio, keep playing!
The shoulder is still sore at night and I can only lie on the left for about an hour before having to roll over. But it is OK when playing so I'm at it again and hope I'll play through it all.
Mike

#31 michael sam wild

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 03:54 AM

Update
'ganglion' on back of hand has disappeared, X ray showed no serious problem , Physio thought as I'd cracked it when doing building work it was a localised swelling. Otherwise just gradual closure of joints in hand bones due to arthritis. Advice from physio, keep playing!
The shoulder is still sore at night and I can only lie on the left for about an hour before having to roll over. But it is OK when playing so I'm at it again and hope I'll play through it all.
Mike


Just got through Whitby and playing a lot. No problem so it seems to have gone away apart from a bit of pain at night if I lie on it
Thanks for all the advice
Mike

#32 David Levine

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 08:52 AM

I don't have a problem while playing, but after fishing yesterday (shore angling and casting with a heavy rod and reel) my shoulder was a mass of aches and pains all through the night. Lying on my right side was impossible. (The bright side is that I did catch eight plump mackerel - when fresh there is no better fish.)

Is arthroscopic surgery as minimally invasive on the shoulder as on the knee? That said, I had an arthroscopic procecdure on my knee before the TKR and the arthroscopy did nothing to help. Are you still happy with the outcome of your surgery, Mark?

#33 dwinterfield

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 06:06 AM

David

Good fishing. Sorry to hear about your shoulder. My surgery left 4 tiny holes in my shoulder. They required band-aids, not stitches. 6 1/2 months later, I can barely find the scars. I am thoroughly satisfied. There is no limitation on my activities. My range of motion is 90%- 95% of normal, meaning I can't tell the difference from before. I'm still taking an anti-inflammatory twice a day. When I'm taking the pills, I notice a little brief discomfort maybe twice every three days. When I stop the pills, I notice the same sort of discomfort 8-10 times a day. They tell me that this will eventually go away.

mark

#34 David Levine

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 06:57 AM

Mark,
I don't understanad this: "My range of motion is 90%- 95% of normal, meaning I can't tell the difference from before."
Do you mean you can't tell the difference from when your shoulder was pain-free, or can't tell the difference pre- and post-surgery?
To what does "before" refer?
And what did the surgeon do? In the knee my understanding is that the surgery is debris removal. Is this different than the shoulder procedure you had?
Thanks,
David

#35 dwinterfield

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 08:23 AM

David
I mean before surgery. My range of motion was always good. I never showed many signs of shoulder impingement. My primary problem was pain, initially while sleeping and later throughout the day. It included constant aches and periodic sharp, short duration pain, particularly when reaching up or back. After the surgery, range of motion is very limited. Arthroscopic or not, surgery traumatizes the tissues in the shoulder. After surgery, I wore sweat pant for 2 weeks because I couldn't get my hand around to work a button and a zipper. (I could still paly the concertina though) Three months after surgery, with my arm extended, I could barely raise my hand to shoulder level. All of this has now improved. The PT folks were constantly testing, measuring and adjusting her treatments to spots that needed it. As the PT put it, most of physical therapy is about managing the development of scar tissue inside the shoulder. Surgery creates quite a lot of it and it starts to form immediately. The challenge is to work the scar tissue inside the shoulder so it becomes supple and flexible. It all worked out. PT is over and I have no further visits scheduled with the Doc.
Correcting my earlier post, my wife reminded me that there was one stitch in each of the holes in my shoulder. She (a nurse) took them out after a week and after that, band aids were just fine.
Mark

#36 michael sam wild

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 03:08 PM

Just a late report. After my initial request for help. The left shoulder has settled down and I am back to 'abnormal' No drugs, no surgery. Nature took is course I reckon

Mike




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