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Cheap Concertina


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#37 Doug Barr

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 09:31 AM

Now Now Boys.....Play nice together! LOL

#38 Ken_Coles

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 10:34 AM

Thanks Doug...he is a school teacher folks, so you had better mind him! Off to play your instruments everyone, thanks.

Ken

#39 Dirge

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 01:32 PM

He started it sir.

#40 Pete Dunk

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 02:13 PM

:ph34r:

#41 m3838

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 03:00 PM

OOh the crushing weight of your impeccable logic there has convinced me. They are ALL concertinas. Thank you for explaining.


Oh, come on.
I didn't say they are not concertinas, except the Organetto. Which further proves my point. A car with wings is still a car, not an airplane.

#42 Jack Bradshaw

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 03:06 PM

OOh the crushing weight of your impeccable logic there has convinced me. They are ALL concertinas. Thank you for explaining.


Oh, come on.
I didn't say they are not concertinas, except the Organetto. Which further proves my point. A car with wings is still a car, not an airplane.


So, if I convert the Bastari...should it be called a Bastetto ? (or ???)

#43 m3838

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 02:39 AM

OOh the crushing weight of your impeccable logic there has convinced me. They are ALL concertinas. Thank you for explaining.


Oh, come on.
I didn't say they are not concertinas, except the Organetto. Which further proves my point. A car with wings is still a car, not an airplane.


So, if I convert the Bastari...should it be called a Bastetto ? (or ???)


Call it whatever, but will it be Bastaretto?

#44 JimLucas

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 03:41 AM

I didn't say they are not concertinas, except the Organetto.

So, if I convert the Bastari...should it be called a Bastetto ? (or ???)

That one's easy. If you convert it, it will have been a Bastari... past tense. For forming the past tense, the usual ending is "d".

So it will be a "Bastard". :o



#45 Jack Bradshaw

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 09:03 AM

I didn't say they are not concertinas, except the Organetto.

So, if I convert the Bastari...should it be called a Bastetto ? (or ???)

That one's easy. If you convert it, it will have been a Bastari... past tense. For forming the past tense, the usual ending is "d".

So it will be a "Bastard". :o


I was afraid of that...........

looks like dead simple conversion though.........gutting a velocity-sensitive keyboard...endplates took one day......

#46 marien

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 10:29 AM

Last week I had the chance to play on 2 similar black cheapies in a shop, and to open it up. For the price you pay I would say it is really a starter. I have looked at it to check whether it could be used for a small format box (5.25 inch), but I am afraid this is impossible cause of the size of the reed chambers.

The first quirck I found out was that it had "almost" the wheatstone accidentals layout. On both concertina's the Bes (fourth button on the third row left) was a B (same as on the second row). I don't know if this is a strcutural mishap, it could be wrong just in the serie of these two boxes. It's retunable of course.

Secondly, the bellows are worse than the ones on a 30 button hohner (the type with the straight lines in the metal ends, okay, I am spoiled with real bellows.

Thirdly, the action is comparable to the same type of hohner (also seen the type as a bastari) with metal ends. The buttons are dancing up in the air on the ends of the levers, held in place by rubber band and the holes. If you push a button to one side its position on the lever may change and the pad may not return to its closed position.

I must admit that the sound was better then I expected, but it is obvious you won'hear the typical jeffries sound. The size of the concertina is more then usual, say 7.5 inch across flats. Still it may be usable for an absolute beginner, a cheap box to interest novice concertina players.

In the end, it seems to me that the work to make it playable (and inviting to be played) is that much that I'ld prefer to buy a rochelle instead.

Marien

#47 Shas Cho

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 03:32 PM

Here is an upgrade that has lasted a number of years. I installed this action in a Stagi w-15 in 1999



"Here" meaning.... where?
I'd like to see this, if it's still available.
Thanks.

(as you might guess, I have a Stagi in need of TLC)

#48 Anglo-Irishman

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 05:41 AM

S'pose so, but you're approaching desperately near to the point where you might just as well buy a keyboard with touch sensitive keys, aren't you?

I just don't understand why MIDI concertina has bellows, while not "silent trainer"


Erm, the whole idea about a midi controller is that it emulates a particular instrument, otherwise what's the point?


Erm, what's the point in emulating a particular, genuine instrument that's readily available, affordable and transportable? Pipe organ, concert grand piano, OK. I don't live in a church or a concert hall, so MIDI would be all I'd have room for. But concertina?Posted Image

And what about gigs? I'd find it somewhat odd to sit in front of people, manipulating what appears to be a concertina, when what they're hearing might just as well be an mp3 of me playing in a studio.

If you must go this direction - i.e. if you're looking for electronic sounds - why not call the thing what it is - a hand-held MIDI controller?

Hrumpf!:angry:

John

#49 Frank Edgley

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 08:28 AM

There are always these hopes that someone will come out with a really inexpensive "Jeffries" or "Dipper" concertina-----an instrument which will be the answer to our dreams. This is something like believing in Shangri-La, or a country where noone will have to pay any taxes, and yet have the best schools, jobs, roads, and food and everything will be incredibly cheap, etc. Those people may also believe in faeries.
There are several things which make up the price of a concertina; labour, materials, paperwork and taxes.
The paperwork and taxes are part of the unseen costs of making a concertina. Records have to be kept, including payrolls, and correspondence with the government. There are also numerous e-mail replies to potential customers who are searching for a concertina (sometimes I have made up to 15 replies to certain customers who keep coming back for more answers, and who can blame them? It's a lot of money to purchase a good instrument.) Then there's the time communicating with suppliers and making sure you don't run out of a vital component. This has taken me a couple of hours a day, until I had to employ a bookkeeper and accountant...more costs.
The materials... One way to lower the cost of an instrument is to use cheaper materials. But who wants an instrument which will wear out in a short while because aluminum has been used for mechanisms instead of stainless or brass? or end grills which bend easily out of shape because they were too thin, or again, out of aluminum, instead of stainless or even nickel silver? or reeds which will not sound well or easily because the cheapest have been used? and painted spruce does not quite have the appearance of ebony, or rosewood etc.
Labour... There are two ways to cut down on labour costs. The fist way is to spend less time making the concertina. Efficiency is one way, but after 12 years, and 350 concertinas, any efficiency savings have been taken up with improvements in design & quality factors. A maker could put less into the instrument.....less time on tuning and reed setup for example, or less time on the fit and finish, or less time spent on inspection of the finished product. Another way is to have the maker dismiss all his/her helpers and just work by himself. But prices would then rise because volume would fall. (It takes more than 80 hours for me to make a concertina.) I suppose he/she could work for less, but it is already difficult to make a decent dollar making concertinas, so making only 10 or 12 a year would either result in expensive concertinas or the maker would pack it in and do something else. You would also have to wait a very long time. There are some makers who work this way. There is also the option of having them made offshore in countries where labour is dirt cheap. "Aha", you say. "There's the answer!" And I suppose it is. But what are the ramifications of this move if we all did this? No more Dippers or Suttners or Connors or Button Box, or Tedrow, or Herrington, or Edgley, etc. But what would be the loss in that? One would be that there would be noone to go to if you wanted something special, as these offshore makers would probably make one style of instrument. To make more would entail a price increase. I am a firm believer that to make a concertina, a good concertina, the maker needs to be a competent player. Otherwise, how would the maker know when adjustments have to be made , the reed timing adjusted, the tuning tweaked, when something isn't "quite right." There are very few competent players in those offshore locations. Once these offshore makers had a monopoly, quality (if they were able to achieve it) would fall and prices rise. Losing all our Western makers would be something like losing our auto industry, except, to many of us, our concertinas are more a part of us.
Inexpensive instruments are necessary. My first concertina was a Scholer from East Germany. I didn't know any better and thought it was fantastic. But I did get sore arms, and when I tried to play with other instruments found I couldn't as it was in some key unknown to Man. Then, after a month or so a reed broke, and that was that. BUT, it did get me started. Inexpensive instruments are important as a stepping stone to something better.....something to treasure and call our own.....something with its own personality and even named my some of us....something to yearn for.....

Edited by Frank Edgley, 07 September 2011 - 08:33 AM.


#50 michael sam wild

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 09:40 AM

Hear hear!
But we can hope for good engineering solutions to make cheaper instruments better and maybe cheaper still for beginners. More beginners and learnbers will create a demand for the top class instruments.

My worry is the number of lovely instruments owned by people who don't play them but I suppose recessions, the failure of pension schemes and the need to eat will bring them out of the cupboard or those who inherit them will flog them off!



#51 Shas Cho

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:41 AM

And what about gigs? I'd find it somewhat odd to sit in front of people, manipulating what appears to be a concertina, when what they're hearing might just as well be an mp3 of me playing in a studio.


Or better yet, listening to an actual mp3 of your best studio performance.
Look, Ma! No mistakes!
Ya gotta admit, there's a certain appeal...

#52 Shas Cho

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:56 AM

There are always these hopes that someone will come out with a really inexpensive "Jeffries" or "Dipper" concertina-----


Beautifully said.
Both informative and affecting.
A good reminder, too, to cheerfully support small and local businesses of all sorts.

I sure am glad I was given this 20-button Stagi.
And I can already see that I'm going to have to have
a concertina in which someone has invested some care.

#53 JimLucas

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 01:04 AM

...believing in Shangri-La, or a country where noone will have to pay any taxes, and yet have the best schools, jobs, roads, and food and everything will be incredibly cheap, etc. Those people may also believe in faeries.

Hey!

I do believe in faeries, but not in that other stuff. No way! ;)



#54 JimLucas

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 01:37 AM

There is also the option of having them made offshore in countries where labour is dirt cheap. "Aha", you say. "There's the answer!" And I suppose it is.

Clearly, it's not.

If it were, don't you think Wim Wakker would have all his instruments made in China, and not just his inexpensive entry-level line?




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