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Starting Out On Hayden Duet, Advice?


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#55 ragtimer

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 05:56 PM

Regards fingering I favour "flexible fingering"; and will state catagoricly that there is no "correct fingering" for the Hayden system concertina! My little fingers I use very flexibly on the RHS for the leading notes, and for chromatic decorations, and usually find that I am using ti IV (up) do I, re II, fa III, which fits the RH very comfortably, but might also use do II, & re III, then mi IV, up to Fa I, So II, La III.

I use my little finger (baby, pinky) on the RH when it's more convenient than trying to avoid it. But it doesnb't work well for trills and mordants and other ornaments, and in the upper reaches of the keyboard the pinky just won't reach.

On the LHS I use my little finger almost entirely for Bass notes around an octave below my other fingers which may be playing counter melody or chords. I have trained it to go right across even under Left I.
Inventor.

I wondered if anyone dared use the pinky on the LH side. I almost never use the LH pinky, even tho it would make bass runs/riffs/scales smoother. Partly due to its inability to land on the right button with any degree of success, and partly because I have to leave a long fingernail on it, due to a chronic sinus condiiton :(

At least the pinky has no problems pushing the nice easy light buttons on the Bastari 67. --Mike K.

#56 JimLucas

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 03:30 AM

My little fingers I use very flexibly on the RHS for the leading notes, and for chromatic decorations, and usually find that I am using ti IV (up) do I, re II, fa III, which fits the RH very comfortably, but might also use do II, & re III, then mi IV, up to Fa I, So II, La III.

I use my little finger (baby, pinky) on the RH when it's more convenient than trying to avoid it. But it doesnb't work well for trills and mordants and other ornaments, and in the upper reaches of the keyboard the pinky just won't reach.

On the LHS I use my little finger almost entirely for Bass notes around an octave below my other fingers which may be playing counter melody or chords. I have trained it to go right across even under Left I.Inventor.

I almost never use the LH pinky, even tho it would make bass runs/riffs/scales smoother. Partly due to its inability to land on the right button with any degree of success,....

There was a discussion of little fingers some time ago. (When? Where? Was it in these Forums, or the old C.net forum, or on rec.music.makers.squeezebox? I'm not sure.) As I recall, a study was cited which found that based on their little fingers, people seem to fall into two classes: The one group has little fingers which are nearly as long as their ring fingers. The other has little fingers which are considerably shorter than any of their other fingers. (Hence the name?) And apparently the researchers found very few intermediate cases.

I'm of the little little-finger variety, and my little fingers are also considerably less agile than my other fingers. Does agility of the little finger correlate with its relative length? That's a speculation on my part, but I think it would explain why some people argue in favor of using the little finger as an equal to the other three (e.g., "4-finger technique" on the English), while others say, "No way!"

My own experience is that with training I've been able to increase the agility of my little fingers, though they're still far from the equal of the other fingers, but I've found no effective way increase their length. This limits my ability to follow the advice of those who advocate equal rights and responsibilities for all fingers.

If my theory is correct, then from their descriptions of their own playing styles/struggles, I would expect Brian (inventor) to have relatively long little fingers and Mike (ragtimer) to have relatively short ones. What say you both? And what about the rest of you?

Hmm, maybe I should start a poll.



#57 Richard Morse

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 11:50 AM

And what about the rest of you?

My guess is that I'm solidly in the little-finger camp. My pinkies are about 20% shorter than my ring fingers. Measuring with my fingers spread to easily determine the center of the bases... my pinkies are 60.2mm and ring fingers 76.2mm.

While that doesn't sound much different I can also measure with my fingers closed together (which is more in line with the direction that the fingers would be to reach the buttons?) and perpendicular from a "handrest" to find that my pinkies are 31.6mm shorter than my ring fingers. Pretty substantial shortcoming!

And I play Hayden duet!

-- Rich --

#58 ragtimer

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 10:39 PM

And what about the rest of you?

My guess is that I'm solidly in the little-finger camp. My pinkies are about 20% shorter than my ring fingers. Measuring with my fingers spread to easily determine the center of the bases... my pinkies are 60.2mm and ring fingers 76.2mm.

While that doesn't sound much different I can also measure with my fingers closed together (which is more in line with the direction that the fingers would be to reach the buttons?) and perpendicular from a "handrest" to find that my pinkies are 31.6mm shorter than my ring fingers. Pretty substantial shortcoming!

Hi RIch. I just now measured by shoving the ruler up against the crotch betweeen my LH pinky and ring finger, and got 56 mm and 75 mm. That's a shorter percentage (25% shorter) than yours, if our measurements are comparable. Your difference is figured quite a bit differently than mine, so I can't comment on that just yet.

We could upload scans or digital photos of our hands ...

And I play Hayden duet!
-- Rich --

And of course so do I, after a fashion ;) I suspect Duets demand use of all fingers more than other types.

I really think my current problems stem from the hand rest and strap setup of the Bastari 67, and I don't mean just the slope angle that we talked about earlier on this thread. I'll address that in a new topic. I feel much more comfortable and confident using the pinky on the odl Stagi 46 than on the Bastari 67. In fact, I was getting pretty handy with the RH pinky (tho not the LH) on the Stagi. And can still play it better, tho I really like all those extra notes on the Bastari. --Mike K.

#59 JimLucas

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 03:16 AM

Mistakenly posted in the "wrong" thread, I've moved the earlier content of this post here.

Edited by JimLucas, 03 December 2007 - 03:21 AM.


#60 David Barnert

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 03:56 PM

I wondered if anyone dared use the pinky on the LH side. I almost never use the LH pinky, even tho it would make bass runs/riffs/scales smoother. Partly due to its inability to land on the right button with any degree of success, and partly because I have to leave a long fingernail on it, due to a chronic sinus condiiton :(

I use my left little finger for static "pedal" tones when using the other fingers for moving melodic lines in close harmony (a 3rd below) with the right hand melody. I just voted for the "More than 2/3, up to 4/5; moderate use" option in the finger size poll.



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