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Finger Numbering Question


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#37 Dirge

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 08:46 PM

I use my right thumb to play the low treble-side C sharp on my Maccan, the only note it can safely get to. It started as an occasional thing when needed, very helpful once in a while; now I do it routinely, but not always. It depends how it feels, but sometimes it is VERY useful. When numbering music out for playing I use 1234 and T, despite being originally a pianist.

I could do low F and its sharp on the bass but haven't needed it, so haven't learnt it, so don't.

#38 ragtimer

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 09:49 PM

I agree the thumb isn't much use on a tina, and progably not on a PA either

I beg to differ.... I use my thumb *a lot* when playing Hayden duet, mostly for the low G# and D# on the left side.
-- Rich --

OK Rich. Your handle and strap postion may be closer to the buttons on your Dickenson Hayden than on my Stagi Hayden. The rows slant towards the thumb and away from the pinky on my Stagi -- I think this is part of the Hayden System -- but still don't come close enough.

I just now tried on my Stagi, and I can barely reach the low G# with my left thumb. No way could I reach the D# above it, tho it would work for a low D# as found on the Tedrow 52-key. Do you ahve that low D#? ISTR yours is 46 keys, same as the Stagi.

On the RH, I can't thumb anything, period, besides the air key.

Don't know why I said the thumb would be little use on a PA RH, sorry 'bout that.
--Mike K.

#39 inventor

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 06:46 AM

I always used 1, 2, 3, 4. for the fingers and 0 for the thumb. This is because I learned (unsucessfully) to play the violin as a child, and when I came across english-concertina players they used (as Alan Atlas points out) the same. The only time I have come across the (1)2345 was in classes by Andrew Purkiss one concertina weekend. (He plays Chromatic button accordion, Piano, and Hayden concertina.) This somewhat threw me and I was about to disagree with his fingering, when I realised he was using a different numbering.
Nowadays when I am explaining fingering I will prefer to use I (index finger), M (middle finger), R (Ring finger) & L (little finger, or pinkie for American readers), and T for the thumb which is used on some concertinas.
Regard to Stagi Hayden concertinas, the spacing of the buttons is wider than standard and some fingerings can be awkward in these instruments.
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#40 ragtimer

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 11:55 AM

I always used 1, 2, 3, 4. for the fingers and 0 for the thumb. This is because I learned (unsucessfully) to play the violin as a child, and when I came across english-concertina players they used (as Alan Atlas points out) the same.

Well, it does appear that 1=Index is the concertina standard. I'll keep that in midn in preparing my own sheet music, tho I'll probably stick with letters.

Nowadays when I am explaining fingering I will prefer to use I (index finger), M (middle finger), R (Ring finger) & L (little finger, or pinkie for American readers), and T for the thumb which is used on some concertinas.

Good to hear. I use these same letters, except P for Pinky. Your L has the advantage of not looking like R under poor viewing conditions (which includes looking thru my eyes :( ) Maybe I will change to L.

Regard to Stagi Hayden concertinas, the spacing of the buttons is wider than standard and some fingerings can be awkward in these instruments.
Inventor.

Yes, I had heard that before, the Stagi keys are farther apart. I'm hopoing my next Hayden (Bastari) will be a little closer together, but not so much so that I have to re-learn everything. Anyway, some chords should be easier.

#41 Richard Morse

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 01:46 PM

OK Rich. Your handle and strap postion may be closer to the buttons on your Dickenson Hayden than on my Stagi Hayden.

I'm not in the shop at the moment so can't compare the Wheatstone with the Stagi - though my memory is that I have a hard time thumbing the left G# on the Stagi.

FWIW, I find the my Wheatstone Hayden 46-key is easy to thumb the G#, D# and F# on the left side (though I rarely do the F# as it lusually ands nicely within the fingering pattern/key - the other two I use mainly for F and Bb tunes and passing notes in ragtime) and rarely the C on the right side.

I don't think that there's anything unusual about my thumbs (though my left was was broken and actually has restricted motion). From the backside of the left handle where the thumb goes over, to the F# is a simdgeon over 2". Measuring my thumb in that position has it reaching out just over 2 1/2" which lets me hit those 3 closest keys pretty easily. The C and F on the right side are right about 2 1/2" away which is just barely doable though I usually don't and those keys usually fall nicely in the finger/key pattern.

Do you ahve that low D#? ISTR yours is 46 keys, same as the Stagi.

No low D# on the 46-key Dickinson/Wheatstone.

On the RH, I can't thumb anything, period, besides the air key.

I really like having the air key in the handle rather than on the face of the instrument.

-- Rich --

BTW, I also use letter notation for fingerings (with the "P").

#42 ragtimer

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 02:15 PM

OK Rich. Your handle and strap postion may be closer to the buttons on your Dickenson Hayden than on my Stagi Hayden.

I'm not in the shop at the moment so can't compare the Wheatstone with the Stagi - though my memory is that I have a hard time thumbing the left G# on the Stagi.

I can barely reach the G# on my Stagi, and anyone who could reach the D# (in the 2nd row) belongs in a circus ;) From what you say below, I assume you can reach the 2nd row's D# on your WHeatstone Hayden.

FWIW, I find the my Wheatstone Hayden 46-key is easy to thumb the G#, D# and F# on the left side (though I rarely do the F# as it usually lands nicely within the fingering pattern/key - the other two I use mainly for F and Bb tunes and passing notes in ragtime) and rarely the C on the right side.

I can imagine how handy (!) it would be to be able to use one's thumb on the LH. Maybe on my next instrument it will be possible, tho there will be a whole nother row of buttons below the F#-G# row (but no D# there, unforch).

I don't think that there's anything unusual about my thumbs (though my left was was broken and actually has restricted motion). From the backside of the left handle where the thumb goes over, to the F# is a simdgeon over 2". Measuring my thumb in that position has it reaching out just over 2 1/2" which lets me hit those 3 closest keys pretty easily.

I measured my Stagi as about the same, tho we may not be measuring from the same base position. I'm wondering if I'm putting my hands in the straps correctly -- the 4 fingers go thru the strap, but the thumb is outside and on top, right?

I really like having the air key in the handle rather than on the face of the instrument.

Sounds like it's lots easier to reach. Luckily I don't use mine much while actually playing.

-- Rich --
BTW, I also use letter notation for fingerings (with the "P").

Good to hear that some who's respected uses something like my scheme :)
--Mike K.

#43 Richard Morse

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 04:44 PM

I measured my Stagi as about the same, tho we may not be measuring from the same base position. I'm wondering if I'm putting my hands in the straps correctly -- the 4 fingers go thru the strap, but the thumb is outside and on top, right?

That sounds right. I'm measuring from the point where my thumb is restricted by the handle, which is the wrist side of the handle/strap intersection (which is the part that restricts the crotch of the thumb).

-- Rich --

#44 ragtimer

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 01:32 PM

I measured my Stagi as about the same, tho we may not be measuring from the same base position. I'm wondering if I'm putting my hands in the straps correctly -- the 4 fingers go thru the strap, but the thumb is outside and on top, right?

That sounds right. I'm measuring from the point where my thumb is restricted by the handle, which is the wrist side of the handle/strap intersection (which is the part that restricts the crotch of the thumb).
-- Rich --

OK, Rich. Measuring from the far side (toward wrist) of my LH palm rest bar, I get 2-5/8" to the F# and 2-3/4 to the G#. Not that much more than yours, but enough to make all the difference.

To the D# in the 2nd row is a full 3-1/4". All these figure are to the center of the buttons.
--Mike K.



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