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When To Ornament


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#1 Dave Weinstein

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Posted 04 January 2004 - 11:04 AM

Specifically, when should you start adding ornamentation to a tune.

My initial thought would be to get the basic tune down slowly, then at speed, and then ornament slowly, and then at speed.

But since ornamentation (especially playing in octaves or flashes of chording) change the bellows dynamics, should I be working in the ornaments as I learn the tune initially?

Regards,
--Dave

(Edited for grammar)

Edited by Dave Weinstein, 04 January 2004 - 12:43 PM.


#2 JimLucas

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Posted 04 January 2004 - 12:47 PM

,,,, when should you start adding ornamentation to a tune.

Aside from Christmas, you mean? ;)

...should I be working in the ornaments as a learn the tune initially?

Up to you. In the end, what works can be a very personal thing. But hey, pick a few tunes with a relatively large amount of the sorts of ornamentation you describe, and practice some the one way and some the other, then decide what works best for you. (And please let us know.)

#3 Chris Murphy

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Posted 05 January 2004 - 05:56 PM

Just a suggestion based on learning Irish tunes on other instruments (since I'm new to the concertina):

You really need to learn the basic tune first for 2 reasons:
1) You'll probably play that tune eventually with some other musicians and need to drop some (if not all) ornaments to get your "version" of the tune to fit with someone elses.

and

2) Playing solo you'll want to vary the ornamentation to keep things interesting. So you might play each time through the tune with different ornaments or ornaments in different places.

You'll also want to isolate those ornaments in your practice, because what works in one tune will surely work in another tune somewhere down the road.

#4 JimLucas

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Posted 05 January 2004 - 08:50 PM

You'll also want to isolate those ornaments in your practice, because what works in one tune will surely work in another tune somewhere down the road.

Yep. You might even develop a repertoire of ornaments to throw in if you need to recover from unbalanced bellows movement.

#5 Dave Weinstein

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Posted 05 January 2004 - 10:16 PM

Yep. You might even develop a repertoire of ornaments to throw in if you need to recover from unbalanced bellows movement.

One of the things I'm working on is being able to switch to alternate fingerings to get back to where I want to be. I have some help in this in that on my anglo I have notes duplicated in each bellows direction for notes in D from A2 through D5, and G from D3 through D5.

--Dave

#6 Alan Day

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Posted 06 January 2004 - 05:42 PM

Ornamentation is great in small doses,however it can be overdone.There are certain concertina and melodion players who are technically brilliant and have amazing abilities, but I am sorry to say I find boring in the extreme after listening for a few minutes.For me a tune played well but simply with the odd ornamentation to enhance the tune, is what I most enjoy listening to.I suppose though it is all a matter of taste which is what makes the world go round.
Regards
Al

#7 JimLucas

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Posted 06 January 2004 - 06:24 PM

Mind's in a weird place tonight. (Nothing new, but maybe a bit weirder than usual?) Just re-noticed the Topic title: "... Beginner Ornamentation..."

What ornamentation do the beginners at your session wear? ;)

#8 Samantha

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Posted 07 January 2004 - 05:08 PM

Mind's in a weird place tonight. (Nothing new, but maybe a bit weirder than usual?) Just re-noticed the Topic title: "... Beginner Ornamentation..."

What ornamentation do the beginners at your session wear? ;)

Surely the topic title would then have been "where " to ornament?
In my case a few rings and a pair of earrings usually suffices!
Samantha

#9 Robin Madge

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Posted 08 January 2004 - 07:27 AM

Does anyone have any ideas about correlation between speed of tune (slow air or fast jig, etc) and appropriate amount of ornamentation, or is the correlation more likely to be with style ( Irish, Northumbrian, Appalacian, Breton, Shetland, etc)?

Also if you ornament a tune that you learn by ear you may be arnamenting ornaments.
Fractal ornamentation?

Robin

#10 Clive Thorne

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Posted 08 January 2004 - 10:56 AM

Does anyone have any ideas about correlation between speed of tune (slow air or fast jig, etc) and appropriate amount of ornamentation, or is the correlation more likely to be with style ( Irish, Northumbrian, Appalacian, Breton, Shetland, etc)?

Personally I a great believer in just doing what sounds right to you, even if its not what anyone else does. i.e. don't think of playing in any particular style, but in your own style. Obviously listen to all sorts of players, but at the end of the day do what suits you and what sounds nice to you (which may be just the basic tune).

On the original question I would second what Chris said, i.e. you need to know the basic tune well before you get too carried away with ornamention. In that way you can always drop back to basics if required.

Clive.



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