[bellowbelle]

I have an old songbook edited/published in 1922 (Rev. J. Herbert Barlow), called 'The Bach Chorale Book.' So, all of the musical arrangements are his (Bach's), I guess.

I am going to use one of the Easter songs, but I'm not playing Bach's arrangement particularly -- I figured out the chords, and I'll just be chording along with some singing.

So, what's given in the book for this piece is:

words are by C. F. Gellert, 1757, and were translated by Frances E. Cox in 1864
music, A. Hammerschmiedt's Fest-, Bus- und Danck-Lieder, 1658.

So...my question is, am I 'okay' to simply say that it's a Bach piece, or, in giving credit to the song's creator, since I'm just using the chord structure, should I say that it's by Hammerschmiedt?

Personally, I think I'd attribute it to Hammerschmiedt, but I'm just wondering what would typically be done.
For the record, that particular Easter song is in my files, just the lead sheet, under 'Easter.'

This post has been edited by bellowbelle: 23 January 2007 - 11:33 AM

[Theodore Kloba]

bellowbelle, on Jan 23 2007, 10:32 AM, said:

So, all of the musical arrangements are his (Bach's), I guess.

words are by C. F. Gellert, 1757, and were translated by Frances E. Cox in 1864
music, A. Hammerschmiedt's Fest-, Bus- und Danck-Lieder, 1658.

Will the original (Hammerschmiedt) melody be sung? If so, then music credit goes there. Maybe you should get credit for arranging!

[bellowbelle]

Theodore Kloba, on Jan 23 2007, 05:43 PM, said:

bellowbelle, on Jan 23 2007, 10:32 AM, said:

So, all of the musical arrangements are his (Bach's), I guess.

words are by C. F. Gellert, 1757, and were translated by Frances E. Cox in 1864
music, A. Hammerschmiedt's Fest-, Bus- und Danck-Lieder, 1658.

Will the original (Hammerschmiedt) melody be sung? If so, then music credit goes there. Maybe you should get credit for arranging!

Hmm. Well, the original melody as it appears in the Bach Chorale book. It's hard to say if it's much like what Hammerschmiedt started with. I will probably find a way to give all three of us a bit of the credit! (This is just for a very informal/nonprofessional CD again.)

[Dirge]

Credit Bach. More snob value. I'd specify J S so that noone thinks it might be a lesser bach...link yourself in for extra reflected glory.

[Lemon]

Actually, it is "Hammerschmidt" (without 'e'). See about him: http://de.wikipedia....s_Hammerschmidt

It seems to me that it concerns a composition from Hammerschmidt. Hence the mentioning of Hammerschmidt's Fest-, Bus- und Danck-Lieder, 1658 as source.

If it was a composition of J.S. Bach, it would have a BWV number (Bach-Werke-Verzeichnis); but there's no such number mentioned.

If Bach was only the arranger of the composition in the Bach Chorale Book, but you don't use his arrangement but your own, you can name Hammerschmidt as composer, and yourself as arranger.

Greetings,

This post has been edited by Lemon: 25 January 2007 - 10:41 AM

[Mark Evans]

Wendy, it was common during the Baroque through Romanitic periods for a composer to "rework" a well-known theme or composition. Mozart did so with Handel's Messiah and Mendelssohn resurrected Bach's St. Mathew Passion with his reworking that ushered in a rediscovery of Bach's work that continues to this day.

By all means put J.S. (Bach had a number of children who took up his trade and in their time were considered better than the old man).

Dirge- Snob effect?

This post has been edited by Mark Evans: 25 January 2007 - 11:09 AM

[bellowbelle]

Now I'm much more informed about Hammerschmidt -- thanks! And, I did think that spelling seemed strange, with the e. There's a typo in the book.

Incidentally, one of my favorite printed paper things that I own is some very old printed sheet music (a commercial printing, not a manuscript) that says 'composed by Mr. Bach.' I figured out that it's by Johann Christian Bach. It's 'In This Shady Blest Retreat.' It was part of a huge old scrapbook of printed music that came in some auctioned lot of stuff. I remember finding it, and how odd it seemed to read the 'Mr.' with Bach, which almost seems too familiar, to be used with Bach. Anyway, it's not worth tons of money but it's just interesting.
~~~~~~~~~~~


I'd typed the following reply on wordpad before I got here and saw the latest replies...

Well, when I first worked out the song, a few years ago, I wouldn't have wondered about where to give credit -- would have just called it a J.S. Bach thing, since I would play or sing what was written. When I found the book, at an old bookshop in Boston, I hadn't done anything musical or creative for a very long time. Had no concertina or nuthin' and hadn't sung a note in years. I actually didn't even care much about the songs being Bach -- such stuff wasn't really 'up my alley,' but I felt like I could benefit from the positive, happy spirituality of the texts. Since I had no clue about what I should bother to work on, I went ahead and worked out some of these pieces. In other words, it was therapy!

I think I was still trying to get back into playing my guitar, then, but I soon realized that my hands couldn't even manage the soft strings anymore....tried my accordion, then got a concertina, and so on.

Around here, there are so many different types of church-music genres or 'backgrounds.' Where I live, at least while I was growing up, the majority of people were of the Catholic church (though I wasn't) and I had absolutely no clue what they were talking about when they referred to particular music. Among the churches that were not catholic, there were vast differences, too -- the more formal and traditional ones, like the New England congregational churches (my grand-parents' type), didn't know the music that I happily belted-out in the Baptist choir as a kid (...no more Baptist choir there today...I think they got too loud or something!).

I am....kinda totally freeform. I don't fit in anywhere. And, that's fine with me. Don't care. I consider it an accomplishment! Though, I am lately trying out West Gallery singing, which of course is of a type. But, I know, too that those singers are open-minded people from all walks of life.

I do admire J. S. Bach. Where would we be without his works? I suppose that somebody would eventually have done something like them. I am never one to revere antiquity just because it's antiquity -- but I think it's way cool to be able to have the collected works of geniuses and artists who lived before us.

One funny thing...I'd verbally told my friend that I had a piece by Bach that I'd try to do on our Easter CD (which we make for the fun and the spiritual aspects, etc.). So, we met once to practice and she gave me the printed sheet with the format she'd come up with (..includes her mother, who's in her 80s, reading). I looked at the paper and saw, 'music by Bark.' I asked her who Bark is, and she said 'Well, that's what you told me.'

Woof.

'Wendy woofs out some Hammerschmidt!'

[bellowbelle]

I've mentioned this old early printed J.C. Bach piece before, but I didn't post pictures before. So, here's a few. The words to this song are obtainable from the web, at a few sites, I think.

The 'Mr. Bach' was the 'London Bach,' Johann Christian. Mrs. Weichsell...I seem to recall finding out was either Ms. Billings, a student of JC Bach, or in the same family anyway. L&B is the publisher, Longman & Bropderip.

[attachment=2330:attachment][attachment=2329:attachment]
[attachment=2331:attachment]

I have more from the book, too....a separate post, different song.

There are a lot!

[Lemon]

Possibly Frederica Weichsell, 1745-1786, a pupil of J.C. Bach in London, or Elizabeth Weichsell, 1768-1818, who later used the name of her husband, Billington. I'm not sure whether Elizabeth was the daughter of Frederica. More about Elizabeth at http://en.wikipedia....beth_Billington

This post has been edited by Lemon: 27 January 2007 - 02:21 PM

[bellowbelle]

bellowbelle, on Jan 23 2007, 12:32 PM, said:

I have an old songbook edited/published in 1922 (Rev. J. Herbert Barlow), called 'The Bach Chorale Book.' So, all of the musical arrangements are his (Bach's), I guess.

I am going to use one of the Easter songs, but I'm not playing Bach's arrangement particularly -- I figured out the chords, and I'll just be chording along with some singing.

So, what's given in the book for this piece is:

words are by C. F. Gellert, 1757, and were translated by Frances E. Cox in 1864
music, A. Hammerschmiedt's Fest-, Bus- und Danck-Lieder, 1658.

So...my question is, am I 'okay' to simply say that it's a Bach piece, or, in giving credit to the song's creator, since I'm just using the chord structure, should I say that it's by Hammerschmiedt?..............................................

Okay, just updating a bit. I have 3 files re this song, one is an MP3 with vocal, EC, and foot bass. The words are a bit hard to totally hear, partly because I just about had to shout them, and partly due to my TMJ acting weird (tempo-mandibular-joint stuff, jaw joint). The files are all still at Yahoo! -- right HERE. (Notice the folder, 4th-one-down as of now, click, find 3 files.)

I made an Easter CD with my friend and her mother, and this was one of the songs we put on it. I ended up not giving anyone the credit...didn't even mention BACH! It's just a private CD, and the songs are all public domain.

I have been using box.net for my MP3s, thought it would be so much nicer than Yahoo! Briefcase, more direct linking, etc., but then just tonight I'm not so sure. They've 'improved' the site and now I can't stand it and can barely use it. Ready to scream...sick of starting something online and then have it all go to waste! When will I learn...?!

Anyway....I managed to scream out this Easter song. Shall practice my foot bass more, I promise...and my EC!

[bellowbelle]

bellowbelle, on Mar 18 2007, 11:26 PM, said:

............................................................I have been using box.net for my MP3s, thought it would be so much nicer than Yahoo! Briefcase, more direct linking, etc., but then just tonight I'm not so sure. They've 'improved' the site and now I can't stand it and can barely use it..........................................

Well maybe I spoke too soon, since today things are working better at the 'box' site. I still don't like some of the changes, but, whatever.

So...I was able to put my 3 song files (.mp3, .htm., .jpg) in a 'widget' and add it to my site, this morning, in addition to what I have at Yahoo.

Now, must get away from this....stuff!