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Pollitt's Peerless


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#1 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 01:59 AM

This one is here. Previous threads have associated the Peerless name with Crabb and with Lachenal. Any comments on this one? Looks more like a Crabb than a Lachenal to my eye. And the seller says that "Tim Collins uses this same exact concertina"--however, I find references only to Jeffries and Suttner in a quick look at the liner notes of his CD.

Daniel

#2 Stephen Chambers

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 05:17 AM

Previous threads have associated the Peerless name with Crabb and with Lachenal.

"THE PEERLESS" was a registered Trade Mark of the large firm of John G. Murdoch & Co. (number 37,884, applied for on 5th June 1884), and their concertinas were built for them by Lachenal & Co. But the description "Peerless" was also used by Pollitt's of Oldham, whose instruments were made by John Crabb.

Looks more like a Crabb than a Lachenal to my eye.

Yep, that's a John Crabb alright. It even has a typical Crabb serial number.

And the seller says that "Tim Collins uses this same exact concertina"--however, I find references only to Jeffries and Suttner in a quick look at the liner notes of his CD.

Maybe he's been looking at a photo of Timmy with a Jeffries, and has jumped to conclusions based on the close resemblance?

Edited by Stephen Chambers, 01 September 2006 - 08:52 AM.


#3 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 03:51 PM

Thanks, Stephen.

I don't know anything about British trademark law, but I did find myself wondering...how could Pollitt's get away with using the Peerless name if Murdoch registered it?

Perhaps you're right about the Tim Collins issue--I may ask the seller.

Daniel

Previous threads have associated the Peerless name with Crabb and with Lachenal.

"THE PEERLESS" was a registered Trade Mark of the large firm of John G. Murdoch & Co. (number 37,884, applied for on 5th June 1884), and their concertinas were built for them by Lachenal & Co. But the description "Peerless" was also used by Pollitt's of Oldham, whose instruments were made by John Crabb.

Looks more like a Crabb than a Lachenal to my eye.

Yep, that's a John Crabb alright. It even has a typical Crabb serial number.

And the seller says that "Tim Collins uses this same exact concertina"--however, I find references only to Jeffries and Suttner in a quick look at the liner notes of his CD.

Maybe he's been looking at a photo of Timmy with a Jeffries, and has jumped to conclusions based on the close resemblance?



#4 Daniel Bradbury

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 09:14 PM

This is interesting, I requested info on my Pollitts Peerless a number of years ago and got a little feedback but no conclusive information.

It was sold to me by Lark in the Morning in the mid 1980s as a Jefferies. When I contacted Mickey a few years ago as to what his provinance might be, he couldn't remember. When Geoff Crabb first appeared on the forum here I asked him if he had any knowledge of Crabb making concertinas for Pollitts, but he said he had no records of Crabb making them for Pollitts.

I can see why it was represented to me to be a Jefferies because of the appearance and the sound. Shortly after I bought it, Bertram Levy played it and thought it to be a very nice Jefferies. Since then Frank Edgley, the folks at the Button Box, Randy Merris and Noel Hill have examined and played it and the concensus was that it was from the Jefferies factory. We were comparing it to a Crabb and the reed shoes in my instrument were much more like the Jefferies reed shoes than the Crabb we were examining.

What with Crabb making the early Jefferies, I can see that it could be an early Crabb. It is certainly a fine playing instrument. Steven, thank you for the clarification.

One thing you will notice, if you look closely, is that the distance between the rows flairs slightly as you move towards the buttons played by the little fingers. This is not like any of the Jefferies or Crabbs we had seen before.

FYI, the serial number on my instrument is 8383 and a pencil written 6 (which must be the number within the batch). There is also a capital cursive letter B in pencil on the inside of one of the reed pads. Mine has no gold tooling or fancy bellows papers. Its all Black. It was valued at around $6,000 for insurance purposes by Button Box a year ago.

I have seen one previously and that one is in France It has the gold tooling and fancy papers. It appears to be nearly identical to the one offered here. I traded photos and information with the owner. He was going to have Colin Dipper look at it. But I have not heard from him in a long time. Its serial number was 8133.

I would be happy to send a series of photos of mine (taken when it still had the original pads). and forward photos of the one in France should anyone wish to examine the instruments further.

Thank you for spotting this and Thank you Steven for the information.

#5 Geoffrey Crabb

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 12:36 PM

Hi all,
Just a quickie on this.

The advertised instrument ID No 8598 was made in the Crabb workshop in 1898. It is conspicuous in the existing records by the absence of this number.
8597 & 8598 are recorded, both made in that year.

Various random numbers are missing in the early records that I possess but actual instruments that do appear with these missing numbers are usually those that bear a another dealers, suppliers or ‘makers’ name. As more of these instruments have come to light, it is my belief that they may have been recorded separately for invoice purposes but these records no longer exist. This could explain my ignorance of any connection with the supply of ‘Peerless’ concertinas when I became involved again.

Regarding the Peerless name, could it be that these instruments were supplied to Pollits via Murdoch?

Crabb records are very sparse pre –1895 but working on the latest known document supported ID numbers and dates, I estimate that 8133 was made in 1892 and 8383 in 1894.

Unfortunately, due to the similarities with certain concertinas and some aggravation received, I can no longer undertake the identification of a ‘maker’ of a particular Crabb/Jeffries type instrument unless an IDentity number is present.

I will gladly date Crabb instruments stamped with the ‘Crabb’ name or given the ID number.

I am always interested in ‘Crabb’ or ‘Crabb numbered’ ‘other makes’ to update my records Database.

Regards

Geoff

#6 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 11:13 PM

I did contact the seller (and others may have done so too) and the Tim Collins reference has been removed from the listing.

Perhaps you're right about the Tim Collins issue--I may ask the seller.

Daniel

Previous threads have associated the Peerless name with Crabb and with Lachenal.

And the seller says that "Tim Collins uses this same exact concertina"--however, I find references only to Jeffries and Suttner in a quick look at the liner notes of his CD.

Maybe he's been looking at a photo of Timmy with a Jeffries, and has jumped to conclusions based on the close resemblance?



#7 Stephen Chambers

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 11:03 PM

I don't know anything about British trademark law, but I did find myself wondering...how could Pollitt's get away with using the Peerless name if Murdoch registered it?

Daniel,

I'm not an expert on British trademark law either, but I think it may be significant that John G. Murdoch & Co. registered "THE PEERLESS" as a Trade Mark, which they used on concertinas (and probably other items), whilst Pollitt's used the description "Pollitt's Peerless Anglo".

Regarding the Peerless name, could it be that these instruments were supplied to Pollits via Murdoch?

Geoff,

I've never come across anything to suggest that Crabb's supplied Murdoch & Co. (it would have been a big account for them if they had). All the Murdoch "THE PEERLESS" concertinas that I have seen were of Lachenal manufacture (and the firm advertised them as such), and all the "Pollitt's Peerless" by John Crabb.

#8 Geoffrey Crabb

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 03:05 PM

This one is here. Previous threads have associated the Peerless name with Crabb and with Lachenal. Any comments on this one? Looks more like a Crabb than a Lachenal to my eye. And the seller says that "Tim Collins uses this same exact concertina"--however, I find references only to Jeffries and Suttner in a quick look at the liner notes of his CD.

Daniel


Daniel
Of course, if the 'Jeffries' used by Tim Collins (I have not seen his instrument) was made by John Crabb, then apart from perhaps the impressed name and possibly the absence of the oval cartouch then there is every reason to assume that the two instruments are alike.
As an aside, the seller did not claim that the advertised instrument was used by Tim Collins.

I don't know anything about British trademark law, but I did find myself wondering...how could Pollitt's get away with using the Peerless name if Murdoch registered it?

Daniel,

I'm not an expert on British trademark law either, but I think it may be significant that John G. Murdoch & Co. registered "THE PEERLESS" as a Trade Mark, which they used on concertinas (and probably other items), whilst Pollitt's used the description "Pollitt's Peerless Anglo".


Regarding the Peerless name, could it be that these instruments were supplied to Pollits via Murdoch?

Geoff,

I've never come across anything to suggest that Crabb's supplied Murdoch & Co. (it would have been a big account for them if they had). All the Murdoch "THE PEERLESS" concertinas that I have seen were of Lachenal manufacture (and the firm advertised them as such), and all the "Pollitt's Peerless" by John Crabb.

Stephen

Fair enough. It was just a thought.

In agreement with Stephen, it was the collective name "THE PEERLESS" not the instrument that was registered therefore either word could be used solely or in conjunction with other words in other registrations. This is based on our own investigations some years ago when applying for Trade Mark registration. This may have changed so I make no claim that this is still so.

Geoff




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