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#19 Theodore Kloba

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 09:44 AM

For any instrument small enough to take as carry-on, I would do so. When the case goes through X-ray inspection and the security staff are puzzled by the appearance of the contents, you might be better to tell them it is an "accordion" or a "musical instrument" than a concertina, since (at least in the US), "concertina" is a name shared with a type of barbed wire that is apparently not allowed on planes.

For instruments too large to take as carry-on, I think the key in packing is to make sure the instrument doesn't slide around inside its case. I once took one of my smaller (but not small enough) Chemnitzers on a trip, and used the case from a large instrument (too costly to risk bringing) lined with foam to hold the instrument snugly:
493px_Chemnitzer_air_travel.jpg

#20 DavidFR

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 10:20 AM

http://www.seafolklo...g/playhere.html

As for travel, I always carry my concertina on. It's fit underneath every seat (sometimes not leaving room for my feet, but such is life) and when I go through Security I say "this is a concertina" as I hand over the box, in order to prevent any unnecessary stress (on both parts) when they see all the strange little metal bits.

I would be nervous about putting it in the overhead storage because I have seen things fall out and hit people, but perhaps if it was all the way at the back it'd be okay. I do like to have it in sight at all times though.


I would agree with Geraghty. The couple times I've flown with it I've ALWAYS taken it carry on and not let it out of my sight. My case didn't fit so well under the seat but I was more than willing to trade a little comfort for knowing it was there and safe. Then again maybe I'm just a little paranoid, but I would NOT recommend checking a concertina. Ever. Just too risky, and even if you get insurance money, not easily replaced.

#21 Geraghty

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 10:30 AM

When the case goes through X-ray inspection and the security staff are puzzled by the appearance of the contents, you might be better to tell them it is an "accordion" or a "musical instrument" than a concertina, since (at least in the US), "concertina" is a name shared with a type of barbed wire that is apparently not allowed on planes.


LOL. Good point, though I'm from the US and have never had any miscommunications on that note. Usually people say "oh, like an accordian?" and I let the minor insult pass in the interests of getting on my plane. ;) Sometimes I present the box open, say what it is, and then close it while they're watching.

Once I brought a WippleStix (travel fiddle) on a plane and presented it at security in much the same way. The guy was fascinated more than anything. I wouldn't be surprised if he went out and bought one.

#22 stevetwilliams

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 10:52 AM

Hi Rami,
Always carry your concertina as handluggage - never check it in if you want to see it again !

I fly regularly between Aberdeen and London and the usual reactions from x-ray staff are 'what is it and how do you switch it on' (i.e. play something to relieve the boredom of checking sweaty socks and underwear). I've had real trouble only once, at Heathrow, when my hand baggage which contained the concertina, a walkman sized tape recorder plus headphones, wires, etc. and a plastic bag containing a bottle of water. The plastic wrapping made the water look suspicious and the wires just added to the confusion. My tickets were immediately grabbed and despite my offers to open everything up we had to wait for a supervisor to appear, then his manager and so on. It caused a bit of a delay but that's life and I'd rather they checked than for anything to go wrong at 30,000 ft.

Steve

#23 Theodore Kloba

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 10:56 AM

LOL. Good point, though I'm from the US and have never had any miscommunications on that note.

I was basing my suggestion on a comment in another thread about concertinas shipped from Europe being held up by US customs because of that word on the declaration documents. Maybe the airport staff aren't as bad.

#24 JimLucas

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 01:46 PM

LOL. Good point, though I'm from the US and have never had any miscommunications on that note.

I was basing my suggestion on a comment in another thread about concertinas shipped from Europe being held up by US customs because of that word on the declaration documents. Maybe the airport staff aren't as bad.

From news stories, it depends on both the airport and the individual guard.

I think experienced personnel know how to ask about something that puzzles them, but apparently some of the recent hires -- at least in the US -- have been taught more to fear than to investigate. I did find it scary, though, to hear a story of a security inspector who apparently knows that "concertina" wire is "dangerous", but hasn't the foggiest idea what it looks like or how it works. Does that mean that he would let someone take a bomb on a plane if they described it as "lunch meat"? :ph34r:

As for myself, unless it's clear that the inspectors already know (by saying "accordion" -- sometimes even "concertina" -- or making squeezing motions), I say in one swift phrase, "Concertina, like a little accordion". A few times I've had to take it out, along with various other things, but mainly because of the other things: casette recorder, digital camera, tin whistles in various sizes... the conglomerate can look pretty bizarre. And there's never been any indication of panic on the part of the guards. (Better not be. It's their job to protect everyone if they do find something dangerous, by acting calmly and deliberately, not freaking out.)

#25 Theodore Kloba

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:00 PM

Does that mean that he would let someone take a bomb on a plane if they described it as "lunch meat"? :ph34r:

While on business travel, my father once had to carry on some fragile prototype cathode ray tube components; he knew the proper technical term "electron gun" would cause a stir, so after some advance deliberation, he decided they were "TV parts." They went through without a problem.

#26 Leo

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 03:11 PM

All:

Tales and stories and speculation aside, here it is right from the horses mouth:

http://www.tsa.dot.g...torial_1235.xml

Yes knitting needles are allowed (conditionally):
http://www.tsa.dot.g...bited_Facts.doc
http://www.tsa.dot.g...torial_1252.xml


The important thing to remember; in the US, the screeners don't work for the airlines, and the airlines can't answer for the screeners. They are different companies. The screeners may or may not be government employees. All minimum wage, minimally trained, with lots of power to do what they are told is correct. Now immagine the frustration going through screening 2, 3 or 4 times a day for 30 years in virtually every airport in the US. The system started a long time ago with DB Cooper in the 70's. Not after 911. I can tell you it's a maddening system, trying to get a handle on what's real. Somehow "I'm from the government, and I'm here to protect you", has lost it's luster a long time ago. I appologise for the rant, however, I've been there, done that, wrote the book, got the tshirt, made the movie, and get royalties from this subject.

As an aside , I don't know what applies in other countries, except some of the Canadian Airports. Remember; we all live in different countries, and each departing country has their own rules. It's possible to carry something one way and not back under the system. Sometimes it's also happens within the states.

Yes Jim boloney is a lot closer to reality than one might think. Yes, each airport is a different empire with each screener more or less operating on their own, and they reallly aren't that experienced. Only doing what they are told.

Thanks for listening, PM and EMail ok for what I really think.tsa.gif
Leo

Edited by Leo, 08 August 2006 - 12:31 AM.


#27 Molly Roberts

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 01:19 AM

When flying I've made it a practice to carry on my concertina - the possibility of losing it being too scary to risk, but after 30 minutes of watching baggage handlers loading luggage last month I had an equally compelling reason to hand carry it. While one worker heaved the various pieces onto a conveyer belt at ground level, the other heaved them into the cargo hatch. Twice during that operation the luggage piled up faster than the fellow could load it and bags fell a good 15 feet to the ground. It didn't appear to cause any consternation, and they were duly heaved on again. There are some truly enormous bags out there these days, and the handlers were obviously struggling with them.

It's probably best not to check anything that can't handle a good bounce.

Cheers,
Molly

#28 Theodore Kloba

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 06:29 AM

last month I had an equally compelling reason to hand carry it.

I've seen some similar scenes while waiting to board.

BTW, Molly: I noticed you're from Orcas Island. Do you happen to know (mandolin player & recording engineer) Bruce Harvie? I love his Mandolin Graffitti album and have occasionally tuned in to his "Radio Free Olga" webcasts.

#29 chris

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 09:02 AM

Hi
I took my concertina as 'personal item' along with a rucksack of cameras and bits on a trip to Canada a few weeks ago with no problems. I did, however pester the hell out of the travel agent as to whether I would have any problems doing this. The thing I learnt was that no one was really sure about what you can carry but generally thought it would be OK I guess these things may depend on the mood of check in staff.

#30 Brian Humphrey

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 05:18 PM

To make my life just a little easier, I was lucky to find very sturdy camera packs by Targus, with shoulder straps, for both of my English concertinas. The concertinas fit perfectly. and the bags make traveling and "carry-on" very convenient. I took my concertinas to the store and got permission to test the "fit" in several camera bags. Be very picky, though ... not all camera bags are of a proper size and sturdiness to be trusted with the task of protecting a concertina. The wrong camera bag could lead to disaster. If you already have a good hard concertina case, that should work on airplanes just fine. CNet has posted comments, pro and con, about camera bags for concertinas prevously.

#31 Brian Peters

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Posted 09 August 2006 - 04:05 AM

I've never had a problem with counting my melodeon (in padded backpack or normal hard case) as "hand-baggage" and my concertina as "personal item", so both go into the cabin with me. On only one occassion did an over-zealous jobsworth at Toronto weigh the melodeon and start to kick up a fuss, but I blustered my way through. The one time I did check in the melodeon, on a flight from Auckland to LA where I had other priorities for cabin baggage, I found on my first gig (fortunately only a small house concert) that several of the bass reeds were dislodged and the instrument was unplayable. Clearly some baggage handler had dropped it from a great height. Luckily Boaz was still operating in Berkeley at the time, and he managed to fix what turned out to be a broken reed block as well as loose wax. But like everyone else, I would say never, ever, check in a free reed instrument unless you have a proper flight case, and even that won't necessarily guard against a 15-foot drop!

#32 hjcjones

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Posted 09 August 2006 - 08:09 AM

never, ever, check in a free reed instrument unless you have a proper flight case, and even that won't necessarily guard against a 15-foot drop!


Having once been "behind the scenes" at an airport and seen the baggage-handling area, I was astonished to see how checked-in baggage is treated. It gets dropped down some very steep chutes from a fair height - not the same as free-fall, but still quite a jolt. I would never check in ANYTHING that might be damaged by a shock, especially a valued (and valuable) instrument.

You can cover your luggage with "Fragile" stickers and ask for it to be loaded manually, but once it's checked-in you've no idea what is going to happen to it.

I was once waiting at a luggage carousel when a very sad-looking cardboard box went round. It was marked "Fragile" and "This way up" - needless to say, it was upside down and looked as if it had been kicked enthusastically around the tarmac. It had just disappeared from sight when I heard a voice behind me say, "Don't worry, darling, it will be all right - it's labelled 'Fragile' "

#33 JimLucas

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 01:51 AM

UGH!!

Just up on the NY Times web site:

LONDON (AP) -- Authorities in London thwarted a terrorist plot to blow up an aircraft in mid-flight between Britain and the U.S. using explosives smuggled in hand luggage, police said Thursday.

...

British Airways advised all passengers that they would not be permitted to carry any hand baggage on board any aircraft departing from any airport in the country.rorist operation lasting several months, police said in a statement.

There goes all our good advice about carrying on your concertina. :(

But I also wonder:

1) If somebody has a bomb in a hand bag, and they're not permitted to carry it on, then they would have to check it as cargo baggage, no? Would that prevent it from going off? :ph34r:

2) I hope the check-in attendants are informing passengers of this change when they check their bags. If they don't get told until they reach the x-ray machines, then in most cases it will be too late for them to return to the counter and check their intended carryons. I can just picture the guards amassing a huge mound of carryon bags that were refused boarding but which had nowhere else to go. (Would they let me pick through it, looking for concertinas? :unsure:)



#34 Leo

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 02:02 AM

UGH!!

Just up on the NY Times web site:

LONDON (AP) -- Authorities in London thwarted a terrorist plot to blow up an aircraft in mid-flight between Britain and the U.S. using explosives smuggled in hand luggage, police said Thursday.

...

British Airways advised all passengers that they would not be permitted to carry any hand baggage on board any aircraft departing from any airport in the country.rorist operation lasting several months, police said in a statement.

There goes all our good advice about carrying on your concertina. :(

But I also wonder:

1) If somebody has a bomb in a hand bag, and they're not permitted to carry it on, then they would have to check it as cargo baggage, no? Would that prevent it from going off? :ph34r:

2) I hope the check-in attendants are informing passengers of this change when they check their bags. If they don't get told until they reach the x-ray machines, then in most cases it will be too late for them to return to the counter and check their intended carryons. I can just picture the guards amassing a huge mound of carryon bags that were refused boarding but which had nowhere else to go. (Would they let me pick through it, looking for concertinas? :unsure:)


Yup must have been those boloney sandwiches, with lunchmeat
Which direction? Eastbound, or Westbound? Doesn't really matter does it?
But they almost got past the screeners, didn't they! Naked flights next??

Might ask for concertina here:
http://www.unclaimedbaggage.com/

Thanks
Leo

Edited by Leo, 10 August 2006 - 02:15 AM.


#35 Stephen Chambers

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 02:41 AM

UGH!!

Just up on the NY Times web site:

LONDON (AP) -- Authorities in London thwarted a terrorist plot to blow up an aircraft in mid-flight between Britain and the U.S. using explosives smuggled in hand luggage, police said Thursday.

...

British Airways advised all passengers that they would not be permitted to carry any hand baggage on board any aircraft departing from any airport in the country.rorist operation lasting several months, police said in a statement.

There goes all our good advice about carrying on your concertina. :(

This is the latest word from the British Airways website:

Urgent Security Advice - NO HAND BAGGAGE

Summary
British Airways, acting on instruction from the UK Government, wishes to advise passengers that no items of hand baggage can be carried on board any aircraft departing any UK airport.

The UK Government has advised that this instruction will apply to all airlines operating from UK airports.

We expect severe congestion in and around all UK airports and possible delays to flights.

As a result, those customers who do not wish to travel today (Thursday 10 August) may choose their prefered option from the commercial policy outlined below.

A freephone number for UK passengers has been activated: 0800 727 800.

Please contact the airline or your travel agent to re-book or arrange a refund.

Passengers departing from airports outside the UK are advised to check ba.com for the latest flight information prior to departing for the airport. To check the latest real-time information for your flight (for today and up to 5 days in advance) please click here.


More information
Passengers may only take through the airport security search point, the following items:


Travel documents essential for the journey (eg passports, tickets and visas)

Pocket sized wallets and pocked sized purses plus contents (for example money, credit cards and identity cards). Handbags are not permitted.

Prescribed medicines essential for the duration of the flight, except in liquid form unless verified as authentic.

Spectacles and sunglasses, without cases.

Contact lenses, without bottles of solution

For those traveling with an infant: baby food, milk and sanitary items essential for the flight.

Keys (but no electrical key fobs).

Every other item must be carried in customerís hold luggage.

For clarity, passengers are advised that no electrical or battery powered items including laptops, mobile phones, ipods, remote controls etc can be carried in the cabin and must be checked in as hold baggage.

Customers are advised to check-in as normal but to expect delays at all UK airports.

British Airways regrets any inconvenience caused.

Any customers not complying with this Government instruction will not be accepted for travel by British Airways.

We expect severe congestion in and around all UK airports and possible delays to flights.


It sounds Draconian, but hopefully it will be only a short-term measure? :unsure:

#36 Woody

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 04:27 AM

1) If somebody has a bomb in a hand bag, and they're not permitted to carry it on, then they would have to check it as cargo baggage, no? Would that prevent it from going off? :ph34r:

Reading between the lines from what's been said I think they think the "plot" is believed to involve a manually triggered explosive. The problem with any other type is that any automated detonation mechanism is likely to be difficult to conceal.

Reading a bit further between the lines I'd speculate that they're looking for something triggered by an electrical current, possibly in (or accelerated by) a liquid.

2) I hope the check-in attendants are informing passengers of this change when they check their bags. If they don't get told until they reach the x-ray machines, then in most cases it will be too late for them to return to the counter and check their intended carryons. I can just picture the guards amassing a huge mound of carryon bags that were refused boarding but which had nowhere else to go. (Would they let me pick through it, looking for concertinas? :unsure:)


Last few times I've flown the check-in attendants have asked to see the hand luggage to see if it is allowable or needs to be checked in.


I have to say I'm relieved that I got out of travelling to Germany in a couple of weeks, taking my Baritone Uke as hand luggage, a friend taking my Concertina, and another friend bringing her fiddle - none in flight cases. All we'd have had left after they'd had a trip in the hold would be a pile of wood-chippings, a few reeds and some wire! :(


- W




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