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Democracy, Continued


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#1 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 21 July 2006 - 12:44 AM

I sometimes find myself feeling that c.net is vaguely democratic, even though I've always known that it actually belongs to Paul. This is because Paul usually maintains a very low profile as site owner, and others of us often get involved in the sort of informal "self-policing" (through posts and through private messages) that would be associated with an unowned, unmoderated forum.

That having been said, I certainly appreciate it when Paul steps in when those methods don't succeed!

Daniel

As Jim has pointed out, this is not a democracy, and I don't know why anyone would think it is. Concertina.net is not a country, it's a web site. I built it (it began as a single page almost 10 years ago!), and I run it with Ken's help, so if there's anything "democratic", it's Ken and I discussing things and acting. Is Amazon.com a democracy? How about eBay? Good grief.
Friendly advice: if you're going to go behind my back, don't admit it in public. Bad move.

Thanks,

Paul



#2 Chris Timson

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Posted 22 July 2006 - 10:25 AM

There is of course a true democratic option if you (that's a generalised you, Daniel, not you in particular :) ) don't like the policies on this forum: start your own. All it takes is time and money; a little expertise is useful but not as important as it once was with outfits like Invision to help you. Then if people prefer the policies of your forum they will vote with their feet.

Myself, I plan to vote with my backside and stay right where I am. I find it pretty comfortable here and once again I offer my appreciation to Paul and Ken for what they put into the concertina community.

Chris

#3 JimLucas

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 09:00 AM

I sometimes find myself feeling that c.net is vaguely democratic, even though I've always known that it actually belongs to Paul. This is because Paul usually maintains a very low profile as site owner, and others of us often get involved in the sort of informal "self-policing" (through posts and through private messages) that would be associated with an unowned, unmoderated forum.

I think that most of the time what we have here could be fairly described as a functional anarchy. I.e., no formal "government" and no formal rules, but through mutual respect and cooperation we get it to work.

And in spite of what Paul and I have both said, I don't think he functions as a dictator, even though he has the authority of one. A "dictator" dictates. He issues commands and forces others to obey then. Paul's role -- as he performs it here -- is more analogous to a god. (Note, folks, this is just an analogy. I'm not suggesting we should worship Paul. B)) I.e., we inhabit his little universe, but for the most part he just lets us go our own way without interference. Only when he thinks we've let things get seriously out of hand does he step in briefly to steer us back to a less dangerous course. Then he once again fades into the background, more of a legend than an obvious presence.

:)



#4 Chris Timson

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 10:32 AM

I'm not suggesting we should worship Paul.

Pity. I was seriously thinking of sacrificing a German 20 button of indeterminate pitch to Paul round about now ...

Chris

#5 m3838

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 01:59 PM

Everything rotates around action and re-action.
Paul has done well. He made a forum, where people can gather.
If he dicates too much, people will stop gathering and forum will die - so much work for nothing.
If we misbehave too much, we have no forum to offer opinions, and for some minority, it's the maiin attraction. For majority though, reading the opinions of minority is main attraction.
So there are no Gods, dictators or democrats here. Not because of good nature of participants, although this good will is noticeably present, but because of mutual need and dependency on each other.
I tend to consider it a healthy example of Anarchy, which (Anarchy) has nothing in common with stereotyped gang of cut-throats with Mauser pistols.
Paul's role here is less of a fashion designer, but more of a warden.
-------------------
I find Concertina.net website been well designed, easy to navigate, simple and pretty much good looking. And I know at least two cajun accordion forums, where there is no movement due to redunduncy and bad design.
Paul's website demonstrates that snappy flashy looking pages, designed by top notch artists are of no importance compared to the ease of use and content.
Since I'm in the process of designing my own web page, this is of value to me.

#6 JimLucas

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 02:52 PM

I tend to consider it a healthy example of Anarchy, which (Anarchy) has nothing in common with stereotyped gang of cut-throats with Mauser pistols.

"Anarchy" means "without rulers", therefore "no government". There are those who try to achieve this state by physically destroying things (or people) they consider to be related to government, and this has led to stereotypical representations of "anarchists", but their acts are no more necessary to true anarchy than "mad scientist" hairdos are to actual science. B)

#7 Jim Besser

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 05:33 PM

I tend to consider it a healthy example of Anarchy, which (Anarchy) has nothing in common with stereotyped gang of cut-throats with Mauser pistols.
Paul's role here is less of a fashion designer, but more of a warden.


Exactly. I've been on various computer forums for almost 20 years -- first bulletin boards, then the Web -- and Concertina.Net is one of the few that has remained interesting and hospitable to all, thanks to Paul's and Ken's light hand at moderation and, I like to think, the common sense of concertinists.

As for Paul's godlike attributes, may the Schwartz be with you, as Mel Brooks once said.

#8 DavidFR

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 02:55 PM

I think that most of the time what we have here could be fairly described as a functional anarchy. I.e., no formal "government" and no formal rules, but through mutual respect and cooperation we get it to work.

I think Concertina.net is almost like a bar or pub with a bouncer. You can look through the windows and see what is going on inside without doing anything, but to get inside you have to show ID (register). Once inside, you can say or do whatever you want as long as you don't step on too many toes. Some people are louder and have lots to say, others sit in the corner and "people-watch," until a topic of sufficient interest pops up and they jump into the fray. Some people drink too much (step on too many toes, are rude, don't adhere to the unspoken rules of the community, or don't adhere to rules as posted by the "bar owner"), and are warned by the bouncers/owner, and after repeated violations are forcibly removed from the bar. This is strictly within the rights and responsibilities of the owners and operators of such "public houses," and is likewise within the rights and responsibilities of the owners and operators of fora such as this.

I think Paul and Ken do a great job in running Concertina.net, I think they show an appropriately light hand in doing so (a credit to the general civility of Concertina Nation), and I appreciate the venue they have given us for discussion of all things concertina-related.

That being said, the success of this and similar web sites is entirely dependent on the engagement of independent users. Empty bars are no fun. The combination of interesting and dedicated contributors along with the most-of-the-time hands-off approach is what makes this site so successful.

#9 Dirge

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 05:27 PM

Nice analogy, David. I also chant "well done Paul and Ken"

#10 Woody

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 01:16 AM

Nice analogy, David. I also chant "well done Paul and Ken"


I agree.

Make mine a pint of Tanglefoot and a bag of Pork Scratchings.


- W

#11 Dirge

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 04:18 AM

Cheddar valley 'red' cider please. Oh and i'll have a pack of scratchings too.

#12 m3838

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 12:35 PM

Pork scratchings?
Is that the English food?

#13 Woody

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 01:54 PM

Pork scratchings?
Is that the English food?


After a fashion.

wiktionary has the description......

pork scratchings (plural only; not used in singular form)

1. (UK) A snack food, normally available in pubs, made from cured pork skin that has been salted and deep fried.


Tastes a lot better than it sounds - sometimes :)


- W

#14 Mark Evans

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 02:45 PM

Pork scratchings?
Is that the English food?


After a fashion.

wiktionary has the description......

pork scratchings (plural only; not used in singular form)

1. (UK) A snack food, normally available in pubs, made from cured pork skin that has been salted and deep fried.


- W


As I suspected. We have those here as well (at least down south). Stear clear Michael! If yer pipes are not well oiled with a pint, a bit of that scratchinging could get lodged in said pipes and you're off to eternal rest :o ! I've heard them called Pork Rinds. Like "scratchinings" better. :ph34r:

#15 m3838

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 03:23 PM

I see.
We call them "Shkvahrki".
Although proper Shkvarki supposed to be made of goose skin, in de-spirited, de-traditionalized, emancipated jewish circles of former USSR, pork Shkvarki were common. Without any beer, mind you.
I don't even want to mention Ukrainian love for such items.
"Russians" have tougher pipes, I guess. Or is the winter?

#16 Dirge

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 04:46 PM

We were jokingly calling them 'teeth breakers' as we ordered them in the pub last night. (with 'red' cider, of course). Gives you a feel for the hardness of the things.

#17 Chris Timson

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 06:21 AM

Cheddar valley 'red' cider please. Oh and i'll have a pack of scratchings too.

Hold the scratchings, but I'll have a pint of Cheddar Valley too. Er, who's paying?

Chris

#18 Woody

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 06:58 AM

...Er, who's paying?


In these matters I think it's always important to show respect and due deference, stand back and let the most experienced player take the lead :D


- W (been playing only 16 months :P )




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