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Size Isn't All That Matters...


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#91 goran rahm

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 04:05 PM

Dave:"Dear God, man, if you're not "giving advice", then what the bloody Hell are you doing? No one can discuss ergonomics, physiology or technique without being treated to a lengthy argument about your ideas for redesigning the instrument!"

Goran:1) Not surprising since it is basically the only instrument we are dealing with
2) We all have our hobby-horses...do present yours and we will see...:-)
3) If you send me a private mail we might discuss what the difference 'should' be between *giving advice* *reporting* *relating* *informing* but frankly it ought to be a task for someone who speaks english not me.....maybe we ought to have a special section/forum for semantics...:-)

Dave:If you think your ideas are so wonderful, put up the money and have someone build an instrument of your design.

Goran:A meaningless comment Dave. The "idea" is not better nor worse. Not right nor wrong depending on if is realized or not. There are many things around us that may be inherently stupid or not purposeful and still noone does anything to 'correct' them. There is nothing wrong with the possible corrections or modifications even so. Neither of 'us' is personally responsible for that something or nothing is ever done but if someone takes action it might be good for 'everyone'....that's the world there is...

Dave:Is it only coincidence that you've never posted a photograph of the handles and straps which you claim to have made -- only rought sketches?

Goran:Those who are interested I use to assist with drawings, photos or advice for manufacture..... (in private...) There were some photos a couple of years back in: http://www.concertin...an_ergonom.html

Goran Rahm

#92 goran rahm

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 04:18 PM

Jim:"I personally found his handles for the English not to be an improvement.
My anglo experience at the time was too limited for me to properly judge his anglo handles."

Goran:This time I do NOT question what you found...:-) But I have to remind you that I have said many times that the say 5-10 minutes you possibly tried (?? or looked at??...I was not present...) are not sufficient to give any sort of knowledge about the possible ussefulness for you ( or anyone....)
Can you judge the quality of a pair of shoes having the 'on' for 5 minutes?
Can you judge the usefulness of a car from driving 50 yards?
And something you Jim will never accept: A complete novice on the concertina would get a more sensible 'quick impression' from different types handles than any old dog of "experienced" player would....

Goran Rahm

#93 Frank Edgley

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 05:47 PM

"Goran:This time I do NOT question what you found...:-) But I have to remind you that I have said many times that the say 5-10 minutes you possibly tried (?? or looked at??...I was not present...) are not sufficient to give any sort of knowledge about the possible ussefulness for you ( or anyone....)
Can you judge the quality of a pair of shoes having the 'on' for 5 minutes?
Can you judge the usefulness of a car from driving 50 yards?
And something you Jim will never accept: A complete novice on the concertina would get a more sensible 'quick impression' from different types handles than any old dog of "experienced" player would...."

Goran Rahm

RESPONSE: Absolute rubbish. Goran, the reason most us us bother to comment on your pseudo-intellectual diatribes is that we consider this forum to be a source of information, especially for newcomers, not a source of misinformation. We may all be incorrect fom time to time, but you will never admit it. In fact, when confronted by a strong argument, yours become increasingly incomprehensible. Again, the old "Baffle them with B*******" technique. <_<

#94 Chris Timson

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 06:26 AM

We may all be incorrect fom time to time, but you will never admit it.

This is at the core of my differences with you, Goran. I like to think , in fact I know that I can be persuaded by a good argument. Sadly you cannot.

I would say to you, in the words of Oliver Cromwell, "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken". Learn a little humility, for God's sake.

Chris

#95 goran rahm

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 09:28 AM

well ...Chris....humility certainly may be in place both when being right and when being wrong but maybe first of all when not being knowledgeable
Goran

#96 Chris Timson

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 10:11 AM

well ...Chris....humility certainly may be in place both when being right and when being wrong but maybe first of all when not being knowledgeable

Out of your own mouth...

I'm sorry, I've broken my rule of not responding to your postings. I'll try to do better in future.

Chris

#97 dbowers

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 10:11 AM

I stand corrected.

Goran, I apologize if I was a bit over the top. I was stuck in the office on the first nice Saturday in weeks and I'm afraid you became the target of all my frustrations.

#98 Robin Harrison

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Posted 23 January 2004 - 10:15 PM

I have wanted to make an obsevation about my experience with button size but didn't want to get caught in the cross-fire !!
I play anglo for Morris dancing. I tried to use my to use my C\G Jeffries but its got those tiny buttons and is heavy as all hell (mine is identical to the left hand Jeffries in the Photo gallery...44 buttons and raised ends) After one tune ,I've got heavy indentations on all my fingers and the indentations are dark blue! I can manage maybe one dance per half hour.
I now use my G\D Jeffries...a "standard" type (similar to the centre anglo in the Photo Gallery).The problem is improved with the lighter weight and the larger buttons but still it hurts.Also at times the dancers can't hear it that well with it being keyed lower....traffic etc.
This year ,after almost 5years,I hope to get my Dipper.We've specified WIDE buttons (Lignum Vitae).
My observations lead me to believe that not only do the wrist straps (obviously) take a proportion of the weight (so Goran's additional hand support look sensible) but also the buttons take a lot more more of the load than one would suspect.

I'm looking forward to an anglo that is lighter and has broad buttons.I'll also try to get raised ,shaped hand bars and finally arrange the left hand buttons so my little finger does not need to play a button but supports the instrument.....I find this also to be a tremendous help when standing.I've thought of a neck strap too,but when you're playing for dancing , you move around too much.
My guess is that for Irish players ( those with "lightening speed" as Frank puts it ) they probably do not support the instrument at all with the buttons.
Regards Robin

#99 JimLucas

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Posted 24 January 2004 - 02:47 AM

...my C\G Jeffries [has] those tiny buttons and is heavy as all hell...

Can you be more precise? How "tiny" are the buttons on your C/G? (I've heard of Jeffries with buttons as small as 3mm diameter and as large as 6 or maybe even 7mm, though most that I've experienced have been 5mm.) And what is the actual weight? What are the same measurements on your G/D?

This year ,after almost 5years,I hope to get my Dipper.We've specified WIDE buttons (Lignum Vitae).

Again, can you be more specific? Wider than 6mm?

(Note: Robin's post mentions both the construction of the instrument and his own method of holding the instrument as factors. I think the latter is a reasonable subject for the Ergonomics Forum, so I've started a new Topic there, "Pressing Problems", in case anyone wants to pursue it.)

Edited to add the name of the new Topic.

Edited by JimLucas, 24 January 2004 - 03:28 AM.


#100 Robin Harrison

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Posted 24 January 2004 - 08:11 PM

......Good idea.....I'm there. Robin

Can we leave this subject on 99 postings ??
Have we ever got this high before ?
Is it a coincidence that the worlds greatest ice hockey player,Wayne Gretsky, comes from Brantford Ontario,which is where this post is coming from and his shirt was #99.....Makes you think doesn't it !!




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