Jump to content


Photo

Russian Odessa Duet Concertina


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 Stephen Chambers

Stephen Chambers

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4402 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 March 2005 - 11:54 PM

Whilst "boldly going" to the outer reaches of the eBay galaxy tonight, I stumbled upon (and clicked the Buy it Now on) a rather astonishing Russian concertina (or is it Klingon ?). :blink:

Apparently it is from Odessa, and has an interesting, seemingly "duet", fingering system. The naturals are white, except the C's which are red, and the accidentals are black, like an English (or Crane duet) concertina, which must surely have inspired this usage.

OdessaConcertinaRHsmall.jpg

But the buttons are mounted on the sides of the instrument, not the ends, like those of a "hybrid" Bandonion, so some might argue that it is really an accordion ?

#2 David Barnert

David Barnert

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3051 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Albany, NY, USA

Posted 18 March 2005 - 12:20 AM

But the buttons are mounted on the sides of the instrument, not the ends, like those of a "hybrid" Bandonion, so some might argue that it is really an accordion ?

Certainly thumbs its nose at one of the convenient definitions. But I'll have to go with "I know a concertina when I see one" and that's a concertina.

#3 Chris Timson

Chris Timson

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3490 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bradford on Avon

Posted 18 March 2005 - 02:34 AM

I'll go with you on that one, David. I wonder what it was like to play, ergonomically speaking? Those buttons do look close together.

Chris

#4 Stephen Chambers

Stephen Chambers

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4402 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 March 2005 - 03:18 AM

But the buttons are mounted on the sides of the instrument, not the ends, like those of a "hybrid" Bandonion, so some might argue that it is really an accordion ?

Certainly thumbs its nose at one of the convenient definitions. But I'll have to go with "I know a concertina when I see one" and that's a concertina.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll go with you on that one, David.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So it sounds like the consensus, at least so far, is :

"It's a concertina Jim, but not as we know it !" ;)

I wonder what it was like to play, ergonomically speaking? Those buttons do look close together.

The seller says it is 7" across, so a side should be 4" long, which should be plenty of room for 7 rows of buttons (an English has 4 rows in only 1 3/4").

Ergonomically it ought to be beneficial, as you can play with your wrists straight, not bent back.

Edited by Stephen Chambers, 18 March 2005 - 03:19 AM.


#5 Chris Timson

Chris Timson

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3490 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bradford on Avon

Posted 18 March 2005 - 05:21 AM

So it sounds like the consensus, at least so far, is :

"It's a concertina Jim, but not as we know it !"  ;)

Just so long as, when you get it, you don't find yourself saying:"It's worse than that, it's dead, Jim" ;) ;)

Chris

#6 JimLucas

JimLucas

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10123 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 18 March 2005 - 05:43 AM

"It's a concertina Jim, but not as we know it !"  ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know a concertina when I see one, and that is most definitely a ......... waffle iron. :lol:

More seriously, while I would certainly not consider it an accordion, it is just as certainly pushing the envelope on the "concertina" classification. Maybe we need a new term. "Concordion"? "Accertina"? Or something completely different? "Yurt box"? "Geodescant"?

But if I had to pick one or the other, I guess "concertina" would be it.

I'm particularly intrigued by what appears to be the means of holding it. A strap across the wrist -- not the hand -- and a smaller, separate strap for the thumb?

...an interesting, seemingly "duet", fingering system. The naturals are white, except the C's which are red, and the accidentals are black, like an English (or Crane duet) concertina, which must surely have inspired this usage.

While those might have been the inspiration for the color pattern, I think you'll find that black and white don't color code naturals and accidentals. If the red ones are C's, then there aren't enough other buttons to make up a unisonoric chromatic scale, but just enough for a diatonic scale. (And if it's bisonoric, it doesn't add up either way.) The black-white alternation seems to be entirely visual, not musical, and I wonder if even the red buttons are musically significant. I look forward to your report, Stephen. :)

By the way, I think it has the appearance of something factory-produced. Is it possible there are more of those out there? :unsure:

#7 Stephen Chambers

Stephen Chambers

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4402 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 March 2005 - 06:06 AM

...an interesting, seemingly "duet", fingering system. The naturals are white, except the C's which are red, and the accidentals are black, like an English (or Crane duet) concertina, which must surely have inspired this usage.

While those might have been the inspiration for the color pattern, I think you'll find that black and white don't color code naturals and accidentals. If the red ones are C's, then there aren't enough other buttons to make up a unisonoric chromatic scale, but just enough for a diatonic scale. (And if it's bisonoric, it doesn't add up either way.) The black-white alternation seems to be entirely visual, not musical, and I wonder if even the red buttons are musically significant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, but what I didn't mention is that the natural notes are stamped into the metal, in German notation (H for B natural), and the black ones appear to be the semitones of the adjacent notes (like an English or Crane), but the detailed photographs would use up about 500K.

I look forward to your report, Stephen. :)

And I'm looking forward to getting the instrument, but I haven't even got the cost of mailing it yet, let alone paid for it ...

By the way, I think it has the appearance of something factory-produced.

There is some Cyrillic script on the end too, that appears to include the placename Odessa, but my suspicion is that it may have been made in Germany, for somebody there.

Is it possible there are more of those out there? :unsure:

There may still be a few left "in the wild", fancy a hunting trip ?

#8 JimLucas

JimLucas

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10123 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 18 March 2005 - 08:24 AM

Is it possible there are more of those out there? :unsure:

There may still be a few left "in the wild", fancy a hunting trip ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I think that would be fun.
And with St. Paddy's Day over until next year, I think I might wear orange. B)

#9 Greg Jowaisas

Greg Jowaisas

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1519 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kentucky, USA just south of Cincinnati and the Ohio River

Posted 18 March 2005 - 08:31 AM

Stephen, Look Out!!!

It is a Borg viral infilltrator!!! If you have touched the buttons you are already infected and are receiving commands from the mother hive: "Buy more concertinas Colonize the Galaxy!"

My sympathies and regards,

Greg

#10 RELCOLLECT

RELCOLLECT

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 213 posts
  • Location:INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA, USA

Posted 18 March 2005 - 08:36 AM

Very interesting piece, ergonomically speaking...I'd like to try one laid out like that. I'll have to keep an eye out for one like it!

Greg

#11 JimLucas

JimLucas

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10123 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 18 March 2005 - 01:44 PM

There is some Cyrillic script on the end too, that appears to include the placename Odessa, but my suspicion is that it may have been made in Germany, for somebody there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, it says "Ivan Blagin Odessa", on both ends.
I'll speculate that Ivan was the maker, not the player.
Also, its use of the "hard sign" (ъ) I think makes it Russian before the spelling reform. (Samantha, can you tell us when that was?)

Edited to add: How do I know that? Stephen pointed me to the eBay auction where he got it.

A very intriguing keyboard, as well, though I think I'll still prefer the Crane, Maccann, etc.

Edited by JimLucas, 18 March 2005 - 02:00 PM.


#12 Paul Read

Paul Read

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1726 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto, Canada

Posted 18 March 2005 - 02:01 PM

Are you sure it isn't a baby Dalek?

#13 RELCOLLECT

RELCOLLECT

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 213 posts
  • Location:INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA, USA

Posted 18 March 2005 - 03:02 PM

Are you sure it isn't a baby Dalek?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


If it speaks in a wheezing monotone and keeps saying "Eliminate!" it may indeed be one....

#14 Henk van Aalten

Henk van Aalten

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1082 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted 18 March 2005 - 04:47 PM

Well, it says "Ivan Blagin  Odessa", on both ends.
I'll speculate that Ivan was the maker, not the player.
Also, its use of the "hard sign" (ъ) I think makes it Russian before the spelling reform.  (Samantha, can you tell us when that was?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As far as I know there was a proposal for a spelling reform before the revolution. It was accepted after the revolution in 1918-1919.
Assuming that our Ivan was a loyal follower of this reform :unsure: , the instrument was made before 1920 :unsure:

#15 Stephen Chambers

Stephen Chambers

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4402 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 March 2005 - 01:13 AM

It is a Borg viral infilltrator!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you sure it isn't a baby Dalek?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally, I think it's a mock-up for a Soviet sputnik prototype, those aren't keyboards but solar panels ! :huh:

Or, is it a scale model of a Klingon battlecruiser ? B)

#16 JimLucas

JimLucas

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10123 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 19 March 2005 - 02:21 AM

Personally, I think it's a mock-up for a Soviet sputnik prototype, those aren't keyboards but solar panels !  :huh:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's almost right. But the buttons are clearly for programming the internal computer (considering when it was built, it must have been Boole's original mechanical one). The solar panels are what look like bellows papers, and the intricate design is their circuitry. The bellows, of course, allow the instrument to be compressed and enclosed during launching, then let it expand after launch to expose the solar panels. :)

#17 Samantha

Samantha

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 725 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:South West Scotland

Posted 19 March 2005 - 01:04 PM

As far as I know there was a proposal for a spelling reform before the revolution. It was accepted after the revolution in 1918-1919.
Assuming that our Ivan was a loyal follower of this reform  :unsure: , the instrument was made before 1920  :unsure:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


That seems about right to me.
Samantha

#18 Henk van Aalten

Henk van Aalten

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1082 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted 19 March 2005 - 01:58 PM

That seems about right to me.
Samantha

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Спасибо болшой Самантюша ;) !




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users