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Tuning Bellows On Ebay


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#1 Don Taylor

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 08:47 PM

This looks like an original tuning bellows complete with a set of comparison reeds?  Three slots for reeds, maybe one for the reed under tuning, one for a comparison reed.  What would the third slot be for?



#2 JimLucas

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 03:51 PM

What would the third slot be for?

 

Just a wild guess, but maybe for tuning to intervals rather than just unison?

 

Are there any historical references to such a thing being done?



#3 nicx66

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 04:06 PM

 

What would the third slot be for?

 

Just a wild guess, but maybe for tuning to intervals rather than just unison?

 

Are there any historical references to such a thing being done?

 

I am not sure about the historical record, however, they come up for sale about 1-2 times a year on ebay. What you are suggesting makes sense with the three slots. One reed tuned C. the other tuned C#, and the reed you are tuning, you can tune anywhere in-between. That would just be one example of many possibilities.


Edited by nicx66, 05 November 2017 - 04:08 PM.


#4 JimLucas

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 04:32 PM

Just a wild guess, but maybe for tuning to intervals rather than just unison?
 
Are there any historical references to such a thing being done?

What you are suggesting makes sense with the three slots. One reed tuned C. the other tuned C#, and the reed you are tuning, you can tune anywhere in-between. That would just be one example of many possibilities.

What I had in mind was more like, e.g., having the third reed be a second "reference" pitch... a third, fourth, or fifth away.  Useful maybe to get "nice" chords in various temperaments?



#5 Ed Stander

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 07:32 PM

Jim -

  I agree with you, but would go a bit further, and suggest that the three spaces are to test triads, thereby allowing the removal of beat frequencies.

  Best i can suggest.... Ed.



#6 d.elliott

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 07:22 AM

One slot for a master reed.

 

1 slot for the reed on push

1 slot for the mating reed on pull

 

Dave



#7 blue eyed sailor

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 08:00 AM

One slot for a master reed.

 

1 slot for the reed on push

1 slot for the mating reed on pull

 

Dave

 

Sounds very much like a mystery solved...  B)



#8 Don Taylor

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 07:14 PM

One slot for a master reed.

 

1 slot for the reed on push

1 slot for the mating reed on pull

 

Dave

Dave

 

At first glance I thought "Yes, of course!", but now I am wondering how this would work.

 

If you put all three reeds in the slots at the same time then how would you know which of the reeds being tuned was out of tune? 

 

Don.



#9 blue eyed sailor

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 01:50 AM

Don,

good point - but couldn't you easily prevent any of the reeds from sounding by just covering them with whatever would function as a valve, or simply stopping the vibration (even a finger might do it with brass reeds)?

Best wishes - Wolf

#10 Don Taylor

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 08:29 AM

Wolf

 

That is true, but I think it would be as easy, or even easier, to simply swap the reeds over.

 

Maybe the idea is to put all three reeds in the slots at the end of the process to check that they are all in unison, but that seems a bit redundant.

 

Given that Louis Lachenal was a very good production engineer, maybe he designed it to simultaneously tune two reeds an octave apart.  You would still hear reeds beating out of tune, but maybe you could also tell which reed to fix.

 

Don.



#11 nicx66

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 03:49 PM

I would think that they were intended for shops that repaired and tuned instruments, and therefore made for multi-purpose, rather than "uni-taskers", something akin to what d. elliot posited. It's interesting that Lachenal sold these sets, whereas he could have just as easily profited from keeping all of his shop-work in house.  My guess, as the concertina became more popular (and peaked in popularity), tuners and repairers made their own machining and fine-tuning apparatus.



#12 adrian brown

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 04:33 PM

I like the springy brass clips that secure the reed top, middle and bottom - a very elegant solution! Can we surmise that this arrangement could cope with a reasonable amount of taper difference on different sized reeds?

 

Adrian



#13 Alex West

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 04:46 PM

If there's a good logic for having three slots including the master reed, what about the tuning bellows which have four slots?

 

Alex West



#14 nicx66

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 07:59 PM

Per my first post, while I have seen a few pop up on Ebay, I have never seen one with a full set of minty, pristine reeds set into the reed pans. 

 

If there's a good logic for having three slots including the master reed, what about the tuning bellows which have four slots?

 

Alex West

It looks like that may have been an option, where the brass plate is nailed/riveted 


Edited by nicx66, 07 November 2017 - 10:13 PM.


#15 d.elliott

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 03:37 PM

Which reed is out? put your finger on one you will soon tell. Of course my suggestion starts to wobble a bit when you recall that reeds outside the box sound different to reeds in the box, plus the chamber side reed sounds slightly different to the non-chamber side reed. 

 

If it were to be for octaves, one claw would have to be made larger for the bigger reed, or one smaller perhaps.

 

Dave



#16 arkwright

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 08:00 PM

It went for $450.   I didn't think it would go as high as that!



#17 Don Taylor

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 08:54 PM

Did anyone here buy it?

#18 adrian brown

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:51 AM

Looking at my (modern) tuning bellows this morning, I see that whoever made them tried to copy the pattern of the reed holder springs of the Lachenal bellows, without having the insight that they actually had a functional purpose and were sawn through, rather than simply engraved. Now where's my jeweller's saw...

 

Adrian

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Edited by adrian brown, 13 November 2017 - 06:52 AM.





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