Jump to content


Photo

Are These Initials Common In Lachenal Fretwork..?

5 20 key C/G

  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 Chris Ghent

Chris Ghent

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1058 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Blue Mountains NSW

Posted 25 July 2017 - 01:58 AM

This picture is of a 5" 20 key Lachenal. We were discussing installing a c# pair and suddenly noticed the letters in the fretwork.

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_5124.JPG


#2 Takayuki YAGI

Takayuki YAGI

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 258 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Japan

Posted 25 July 2017 - 04:26 AM

I once saw these initials(M&Co) listed on ebay in 2008, slightly different but similar. I didn't bid on it but it was a semi-miniature too.

miniature_fretwork.jpg


Edited by Takayuki YAGI, 25 July 2017 - 05:19 AM.


#3 Greg Jowaisas

Greg Jowaisas

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1521 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kentucky, USA just south of Cincinnati and the Ohio River

Posted 25 July 2017 - 09:20 AM

I've had a number of L&Co instrument pass through my hands.  Several were 20b and I still have a 30b.  All were rosewood and semi-miniatures.

 

I wish I had seen the one Takayuki san mentioned.  Murdoch & Co?

 

Greg



#4 mike byrne

mike byrne

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 110 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 25 July 2017 - 12:02 PM

This is my 5'' 20 key with B S & S in the fretwork

(Barnett Samuel and Sons)

Attached Thumbnails

  • CIMG3366.JPG


#5 Chris Ghent

Chris Ghent

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1058 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Blue Mountains NSW

Posted 25 July 2017 - 09:21 PM

I had assumed L&Co referred to Lachenal but the existence of other initials might suggest L&Co was another firm with coincident initials. I didn't note the serial number but from memory it is 94,000 plus a few.

Could they have been a personalised gift for, say, firms that had bought large numbers of concertinas from Lachenal?

#6 Geoffrey Crabb

Geoffrey Crabb

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 561 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bishop's Stortford, Hertfordshire, England

Posted 26 July 2017 - 05:30 AM

I've had a number of L&Co instrument pass through my hands.  Several were 20b and I still have a 30b.  All were rosewood and semi-miniatures.

 

I wish I had seen the one Takayuki san mentioned.  Murdoch & Co?

 

Greg

 

More probably Metzler & Co. 

 

Geoff



#7 Ex Libris

Ex Libris

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 76 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nottingham, UK

Posted 29 July 2017 - 03:01 PM

@ Mike - I have owned a Barnett and Samuel and Sons, Lachenal Concertina. You may know this already, but this company eventually became Decca.

 

http://www.gracesgui...Samuel_and_Sons

 

Regards, 

 

Jeremy



#8 Bill Crossland

Bill Crossland

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 185 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Holmfirth, Yorkshire

Posted 14 August 2017 - 03:50 PM

And another Barnett and Samuel labelled Lachenal semi miniature

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_20170812_125234.jpg


#9 mike byrne

mike byrne

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 110 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 15 August 2017 - 02:27 AM

I need that label in my Barnett Samuel.


Edited by mike byrne, 15 August 2017 - 03:33 AM.


#10 David Barnert

David Barnert

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3052 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Albany, NY, USA

Posted 15 August 2017 - 07:15 AM

It’s interesting that all the pictures on this page also show a “dummy” hole for an air valve button on the right, in the mirror image location to where the actual air valve button is on the left. Maybe I don’t spend enough time around Anglos, but do all Anglos have that?



#11 Bill Crossland

Bill Crossland

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 185 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Holmfirth, Yorkshire

Posted 15 August 2017 - 03:15 PM

Pretty much every one I've repaired/dealt with has the reflected air button hole on both ends

#12 Anglo-Irishman

Anglo-Irishman

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1473 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Stuttgart, Germany

Posted 17 August 2017 - 04:39 AM

Neither of my Anglos has the "mirrored" air-button-hole. One is a Dallas-Crabb, the other a Stagi. Both 30-button, both metal-ended.

 

Could it be that the "spare" hole appears only in concertina models that were offered optionally with/without a drone? The ends could all have been sourced with the extra hole on the left, which would have actually been used only when a 31-button instrument was ordered.

 

Cheers,

John



#13 mike byrne

mike byrne

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 110 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 17 August 2017 - 06:07 AM

I bought this concertina because it had my Christian name initial in the fretwork.

I have not found out who the maker was yet.

Suggestions welcome.

Attached Thumbnails

  • CIMG4989-001.JPG
  • CIMG4990-001.JPG
  • CIMG4993-001.JPG


#14 David Barnert

David Barnert

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3052 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Albany, NY, USA

Posted 17 August 2017 - 07:19 AM

It’s interesting that all the pictures on this page also show a “dummy” hole for an air valve button on the right, in the mirror image location to where the actual air valve button is on the left. Maybe I don’t spend enough time around Anglos, but do all Anglos have that?

Pretty much every one I've repaired/dealt with has the reflected air button hole on both ends

Neither of my Anglos has the "mirrored" air-button-hole. One is a Dallas-Crabb, the other a Stagi. Both 30-button, both metal-ended.

 

Could it be that the "spare" hole appears only in concertina models that were offered optionally with/without a drone? The ends could all have been sourced with the extra hole on the left, which would have actually been used only when a 31-button instrument was ordered.

 

Since I posted the other day I’ve been looking at lots of pictures of anglos. Found lots that don’t have the mirror hole and lots that do, including some modern ones:

 

Suttner

a1_2004.jpg

 

Concertina Connection Clover

clover%20natural.jpg

 

Geuns

geuns_metal_anglo1.JPG

 

My guess is that these instruments duplicated the fretwork patterns that existed in vintage instruments.



#15 lachenal74693

lachenal74693

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 379 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Urmston, S-W Manchester, U.K.

Posted 18 August 2017 - 11:45 AM

Main question is to do with the 5" semi-miniatures which were the start point for this thread.

 

Clearly, these small instruments are a lot more common than I realised. I have a 30-button,

Bb/F, 5-3/8" ax the flats, but nothing smaller. Just how common are these 5" models?

 

Aside: Reflected air button hole is an interesting artefact - I just checked my collection - the

reflected air button hole is present in:

 

30-button Bb/F semi-miniature Lachenal - 5-3/8" ax the flats

26-button G/D Lachenal - 6-1/4" ax the flats

2x20-button C/G Lachenal - 6-1/4" ax the flats

 

Would I be correct in thinking that it is generally not present on later (cheaper?) Lachenal

instruments - the ones with the simpler fretwork pattern, and 'red mahogany' ends?

 

What is the 'usual' position for drone/novelty buttons? I have a 30-button G/D with a drone

on the left-hand end in the same relative position as the air button on the right-hand end...

 

Roger.


Edited by lachenal74693, 18 August 2017 - 12:15 PM.


#16 Bill Crossland

Bill Crossland

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 185 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Holmfirth, Yorkshire

Posted 20 August 2017 - 01:22 PM

Your chance to own one: http://www.ebay.co.u...0?ul_noapp=true

#17 lachenal74693

lachenal74693

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 379 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Urmston, S-W Manchester, U.K.

Posted 21 August 2017 - 12:36 AM

Your chance to own one: http://www.ebay.co.u...0?ul_noapp=true

 

Thanks for pointing that one up. I don't do eBay much any more but in any case,

when that sale ends, I will be totally unable to monitor it (on a boat w/out WiFi). Pity...

 

I notice though that the instrument has a fitted case (the instrument will only fit in one

position), and that not only does it have the reflected air hole on the RHE, but it has 

'dummies' on the LHE also. I now see my 5-3/8" semi-miniature has these on the

LHE too.

 

Thanks.

 

R



#18 Bill Crossland

Bill Crossland

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 185 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Holmfirth, Yorkshire

Posted 22 August 2017 - 06:33 AM

I know from making replacement ends that the pattern usually matches fairly closely( but in reverse) both ends, with some variation on the positioning of the note buttons. Perhaps all the ends were made to one common fretwork pattern, then paired up and one end reversed before finishing and finalising the position of the buttons.... Hence frequently four positions for the air button/drone and two reflected ones......






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users