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The Logic Of The Layouts

Frank Edgley Concertina Carroll Layout Jeffries Layout Daddy Long Les

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#1 Daddy Long Les

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 05:00 PM

Today I have taken delivery of my Frank Edgley thirty button anglo concertina which was secondhand.  It has a Carroll layout which I notice is identical to the Jeffries layout except for the push on the first button right hand side, top row, is a C# and the Jeffries has a D# there.  So I have a C# in both directions on that button


I have no less than 3 x C#3s on that row which I think is good for Irish music though I'm not experienced enough to say for sure.


I notice though that the Wheatstone layout has 6 different notes (to my layout) on the top right hand side row.


Can anyone explain the logic behind these layouts?


Many thanks if you can!



#2 Ken_Coles


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Posted 04 November 2015 - 08:53 PM

Boy is this the tip of a big iceberg.  Lots of old threads on this, or wait for some of our history experts, as I'm not sure where to begin...


My impression is that the C# in both directions on button one/right 3rd row started a decade or two back with players of Irish music (personally I use standard Wheatstone/Lachenal and Jeffries layouts in my amateurish Irish playing).  While I'm sure it helps those players, it does make me wonder why they play anglos and not English concertina!   B)



#3 Don Taylor

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 10:36 PM

I am pretty sure that Frank will sell you some replacement reeds that would turn it into a standard Wheatstone/Lachenal or Jeffries layout.


Frank's reed pan is designed so that it you just have to undo two screws to take out a reed.  No wax, no reed boxes.  You can easily do it yourself or get your local fettler to do it and touch up the tuning on the new reeds.


If you do not have a copy then ask Frank for his sheet of maintenance notes on his concertinas.



#4 MatthewVanitas


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Posted 05 November 2015 - 08:09 PM

I'll just submit that C# is an innovation of Lucifer to mislead musicians from playing in F, C, and G as per Divine Plan. That is all. ;)


Or, at the opposite end of the social spectrum: "key is a social construct of no objective validity".


Interpret as per your social wonts.

Edited by MatthewVanitas, 05 November 2015 - 08:10 PM.

#5 StuartEstell


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Posted 06 November 2015 - 05:59 AM

I saw the title of this thread and was preparing to write a post on the Jeff duet -- something along the lines of "Logic? Bwhahahahahaha." Never mind. One of these days I will get round to writing a semi-serious article about why the Jeffries duet system layout is a work of (possibly accidental) evil genius.


But: replacing my anglo-player's hat: in the Carroll layout is there therefore an Eb | Eb button next to it?


My twopence-worth is that for harmonic playing on a 30 button instrument the Jeffries layout gives a bit more flexibility with the doubled C# and Eb and that nice top D on the pull in the top right corner (C/G). With 36 buttons and above it matters less as all sorts of other layout variations can creep in. As for logic, I suspect it's more a case of differently imperfect compromises with regard to the top row of "handy stuff" not on the two home rows...

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