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"accordion" Reeds Vs. "concertina" Reeds


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#73 Richard Morse

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Posted 01 January 2005 - 08:52 AM

What about something like 'single-frame' or 'single-vented'?

Dave

I think that the number of reeds in a frame would be descriptive of a vintage or "traditional" (new concertinas along vintage lines - (I really like that term!) rather than decisive as it's not the number of reeds per frame but the type of reed and vent that gives vintage and traditionally made concertinas their tone and response.

#74 d.elliott

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Posted 02 January 2005 - 03:35 AM

Rich,

so:

we have concertinas which are hybrids, and are new

we don't have concertinas which are hybrids, and are old - but we might have done

we have vintage concertinas with traditional reeds/ pans

we have new concertinas with traditional reeds/ pans
(or dare I even think it 'repros' :unsure: ???)

Does that about cover it? I would never want us to use the 'repro' word, in the UK it tends to be a bit of sneer.

Dave

ps
It sounds like we may also be getting new concertinas with re-claimed vintage reeds too, perhaps a 'recyclotina'

D

#75 IrishRover

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 08:51 AM

Hi,

On the subject of reeds, I have a hankering to build concertina for myself (lots of reasons no doubt why I should not attempt this but) if I was to go down this road where could I get a set of English "Concertina" reeds from.

I'm guessing that the established manufacturers might agree to supply a set but not on a short delivery basis (understandably). If any of you learned gentlemen can point me in the direction of potential suppliers it would be appreciated.

Might be for this project I have to compromise on the "concertina reeds" but I'd like to stick to traditional construction techniques and standard instrument sizes. I have discounted using the reeds from an old instrument - don't feel comfortable with the principle of taking a piece of history out of commission.


Thanks,


Harry Wilson

#76 Theo

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 12:02 PM

Dear Harry

I guess from your user name that you want to build an anglo.

If not then I may have what you need.

Last year I acquired a box of concertina parts which included a matched pair of reedpans from a 56 key English. They have no makers name, serial number or other identifying marks, but are eight-sided so I think they must be from a Wheatstone Aeola. They include a set of brass reeds which appear not to have been touched since they left the factory. I think one or possibly two reeds have been replaced with steel.

I have nothing else from this instrument so you would not be breaking up an old instrument!

Contact me off-list if you are interested.

Photo included

Theo

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#77 Tim Hall

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 02:08 PM

I'm guessing that the established manufacturers might agree to supply a set but not on a short delivery basis (understandably).

Juergen Suttner's website used to quote prices for entire reed sets for English and Anglo concertinas - you might check with him, and see if his site still offers such things.

Tim

#78 Stephen Chambers

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Posted 04 January 2005 - 07:00 AM

Juergen Suttner's website used to quote prices for entire reed sets for English and Anglo concertinas - you might check with him, and see if his site still offers such things.

They are still listed there, though with a 2003 date :

2003
Concertina Parts Price (EURO)

Bellows, six sided, black leather, six fold 375.00
Bellows, six sided, black leather, seven fold 400.00
Jeffries bellowspaper, 100 pieces 15.00
Tuning, per tongue 3.40
New tongue and used frame, per tongue 12.85
New tongue and new frame, per tongue 27.80
Set of tongues and frames for 31-key Anglo 675.00
Set of tongues and frames for 38-key Anglo 835.00
Set of tongues and frames for 48-key English 1,040.00
Handstraps for Anglo, per pair 21.00
Thumbstraps for English, per pair 30.00
Strap screws, brass, per pair 17.30
Strap screws, german silver, per pair
20.50
30 pads 17.70
60 valves 15.00
1 spring 1.10
1 Key, solid German silver, with bushings 1.85
1 riveted lever and lever end leather circles 14.00
Concertina case 85.00

#79 IrishRover

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Posted 04 January 2005 - 12:15 PM

Hello again,

Actually for the record it is an English Concertina that I would like to make but I'd prefer to find a source of new reeds if possible. I have emailed Juergen and no doubt will get a response in time. Thanks for the offer Theo, I will drop you an email so we can keep in touch off list.

Thanks,


Harry Wilson

#80 Stephen Chambers

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Posted 13 March 2005 - 01:03 PM

I was talking to Paddy Frawley, a 90-year old concertina player, last night and he mentioned that he didn't like the sound of the "new" (meaning Anglo, though he calls them English) concertinas, which to his ears sound too sharp, he much prefers the "old" (that is German, with multiple reeds) style ones that sound much sweeter.

He would not be the only one of his generation to think that.

Time to get rid of those horrible Wheatstones and Jeffries, and get a "decent" Scholer ? B)

#81 x_me_x

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Posted 13 March 2005 - 01:05 PM

:P

#82 bill_mchale

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 08:27 AM

I was talking to Paddy Frawley, a 90-year old concertina player, last night and he mentioned that he didn't like the sound of the "new" (meaning Anglo, though he calls them English) concertinas, which to his ears sound too sharp, he much prefers the "old" (that is German, with multiple reeds) style ones that sound much sweeter.

He would not be the only one of his generation to think that.

Time to get rid of those horrible Wheatstones and Jeffries, and get a "decent" Scholer ?  B)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


My parents, though a fair bit younger than Paddy Frawley would feel the same way. They both greatly prefer the sound of the accordion to the concertina and my wetter accordion (A very wet late model Paolo Clone) to my dryer Saltarelle. For the life of them they can't understand why I want a concertina (it hasn't yet come up in conversation with them that I actually have one :)). I will definitely have to tell them before the Catskills this year since I don't plan on leaving the Concertina at home.

--
Bill

#83 RELCOLLECT

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 10:27 AM

My acquaintences (previously "friends") can't figure out why I want a concertina at all! The general responses run to "that's just geeky" to "why, do you think you're a pirate?"

Aye, matey! Now pass me m'eyepatch!

#84 caj

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 04:05 PM

I hate to muddy the waters regarding terminology, but thanks to eBay I am reluctant to call anything "vintage." It is becoming a disparaging term.

In the secret language of eBay, "vintage" means "not really antique, but boy it sure looks and smells like it's been through a couple wars." Auctioneers tend to call something "vintage" if they can't confidently call it an antique.

I prefer "traditional" to describe concertina-reeded boxen, then "modern" to describe the new, expertly made accordion-reeded ones, and "Stagi" to describe Stagis. A traditional box made before Crabb stopped manufacturing is "old". My concertina is "old," tho not by much; I'm about the same age as it.

Caj

#85 Ashkettle

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 04:52 PM

Don't know what to call them and I don't care.

I know my Ceili doesn't sound like an old classis concertina (antique, vintage, whatever you want to call it), but I like the sound. I've never been traditionalist enough to think that it matters really.

After all, the music is still a living tradition. As this new breed of concertina hits the marketplace, it will slowly become the norm of what people expect to hear when they think of the concertina. This is how things happen.

If I'm playing my Ceili some day at a session and somebody makes a comment...well, I know a few Piano Accordian players in the area, and I'm not afraid to use them. :P

Personally, I bought the instrument that had the sound I enjoy the most. It may not have the instant snap of concertina reeds, but I doubt that will ever be an issue with my playing.

Now, my old Stagi...shudder.

#86 Hilary

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 06:35 PM

I didn't really recognise (ie. believe in) any real difference between accordian and concertina reeds until today.
Alahluja, I have seen the light!
I've just finished rebuilding a 'German, Democratic Republic' D/G 20 button anglo, for my brother-in-law to send to an unsuspecting Ukranian school. It has accordian reeds and it sounds dreadful.
People (in local sessions) have occasionally been disparraging about the tone of my Marcus D/G, but that is nothing compared to the rubbish I have just rebuilt (I like the tone of the Marcus).
I am truely embarrased to be connected to the crime about to be perpetrated on these poor children (there's a nasty 12 base accordian as well). I actually think sending the school kids a box of descant recorders would be more humane (and I HATE kids with recorders).

#87 bigsqueezergeezer

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 04:26 AM

For my two penn'orth, I believe it should be what the buyer/player of the instrument likes best. Whether or not the audience/other session members like it should only be a small consideration. After all, it is you who hears your concertina the most!

Derek

#88 Theo

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 07:41 AM

For my two penn'orth, I believe it should be what the buyer/player of the instrument likes best. Whether or not the audience/other session members like it should only be a small consideration. After all, it is you who hears your concertina the most!

Derek

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You could argue that there is actually a wider variety of tone available in traditional concertina reeds anyway, all the way from soft sounding and not very responsive low-end brass reeds, up to the jeffries-type that bark at you at the slightest provocation! So the accordion-type reeds are just broadening the choice.

Theo

Edited by Theo, 31 March 2005 - 07:41 AM.


#89 Ashkettle

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Posted 31 March 2005 - 10:15 AM

You could argue that there is actually a wider variety of tone available in traditional concertina reeds anyway, all the way from soft sounding and not very responsive low-end brass reeds, up to the jeffries-type that bark at you at the slightest provocation!  So the accordion-type reeds are just broadening the choice.

Theo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


When I argue at all, I usually just remind the person that I'm bigger than them. Always seems to work for me :P




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