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48 Key Wheatstone Steel Reeds Circa 1860 For Sale

Wheatstone For Sale Vintage

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#1 tradbuzztrish

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 06:41 AM

Hi All

I am a newbie to Concertina.net and I have been playing for two years now. I have learned on an Anglo Stagi and have acquired a vintage 48 key Wheatstone. I could adapt to the Wheatstone fingering but I'd prefer to sell or exchange for an upgrade to an Anglo 30 key of similar quality.

Please advise me as I need your expertise. Long live the music and this forum.



#2 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 02:14 PM

How's about a couple of pictures or a serial number ?

#3 4to5to6

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 02:42 AM

Very nice looking vintage concertina Trish.  I'll have to look more tomorrow but looks it like 12310 is a an 1864.

 

http://www.horniman.info

 

Probably in Wayne 1053 somewhere.

 

Very clean looking.  It's interesting how they stuck the Wheatstone logo to one of the bellow's papers.  Very nice touch actually.  They usually discard the logo when the baffles are removed.  Let me know what you want for it.  I might just have to start my own little collection of Wheatstones.  Is this how it starts? First a few brass reed Mahogany trebles and then one day I am starring at my book case full of amboyna and tortoiseshell Aeolas!!!  :wacko:

 

Post a few photos for everyone to see.

 

John


Edited by 4to5to6, 07 July 2015 - 03:04 AM.


#4 tradbuzztrish

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 04:41 PM

Hi All

Thanks for your input.

I will send on some photos of the Wheatstone shortly. As I am interested in upgrading my Anglo I would consider an exchange for a 30 Key Anglo. I have been advised that the Wheatstone is worth between £600 and £800.

 

Thanks again for all your advice.

 

Ní neart go chur le chéile. (Strength in numbers)

 

Trish


Edited by tradbuzztrish, 08 July 2015 - 04:45 PM.


#5 tradbuzztrish

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 04:49 PM

Hi All

Photos a promised

Trish

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#6 malcolm clapp

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 08:18 PM

Are you sure about the number?

 

Assuming the case is original, Wheatstones moved to the West Street address in 1905. The post code was changed from WC to WC2 around 1917, so that fairly certainly dates the case to within that 1905 to 1917 period. Maybe a little later perhaps, as it is likely that old stock labels continued to be used for a short while.

 

My similar, almost identical Wheatstone came in a case that has the later red label with the WC2 post code. Unfortunately, no number, so pretty well undateable.



#7 4to5to6

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 12:01 AM

I don't think the case is original to this concertina. Just a guy feeling from looking at Very nice case though. Please check the serial number. An interior photo of it and the reeds would be nice. You said steel but are the reeds two screw or riveted? The indexes for these years were not sequentia so a pain but it should be in there somewherel. I think I found serial 12313 with date 1864. If I have time tomorrow I will page through a few hundred pages and try to find it... reminds of when I genealogy research many years ago,

Please add the bellows photo showing the the Wheatstone logo that has been glued to a bellows paper. Very nice they saved it. I could be put onto the end again with a little TLC.

Very nice concertina. Has it ever been tuned? Pristine, untouched reeds will raise the value.

Thanks,
John

#8 malcolm clapp

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 01:20 AM

The indexes for these years were not sequentia so a pain but it should be in there somewherel. I think I found serial 12313 with date 1864. If I have time tomorrow I will page through a few hundred pages and try to find it... r
 

John, save yourself a lot of time and trouble by using this program  http://www.concertin...ookup/index.htm

 

You will not find 12313 listed (I've looked), so for whatever reason it never appeared in the ledgers, hence my suggestion that the number *may* be incorrect.

 

Might be useful to bookmark the page for future reference though...



#9 4to5to6

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 01:54 AM

Thanks Malcolm.  That is awesome.  I have it bookmarked.

 

The closest two I could find to 12310 is:

 

12317 - C1053, Page 8 - Nov, 1864

12319 - C1053, Page 9 - Dec, 1864 

 

So if the serial number is correct lets just call it a circa 1864.

 

Am I right?  I am still learning.

 

I went through a lot of serial numbers for fun and there is a lot missing.  Interesting.

 

John

 

PS. I was just offered an old unrestored Wheatstone today for $200 CAD.  I don't want to rip anyone off so maybe it will be my turn to do my own research tomorrow.  Could it be a TT Aeola!!! Amboyna burl! Tortoiseshell! One can only hope.  Thanks again Malcolm.  You saved me a lot of time.


Edited by 4to5to6, 09 July 2015 - 01:56 AM.


#10 JimLucas

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:03 AM

PS. I was just offered an old unrestored Wheatstone today for $200 CAD.  I don't want to rip anyone off so maybe it will be my turn to do my own research tomorrow.  Could it be a TT Aeola!!! Amboyna burl! Tortoiseshell! One can only hope.

 

Waiting with great interest (though not with bated breath, as I have some heavy work to do today ;)) to hear what it is.  While your hopes seem unlikely, I know better than to say impossible.  I know of a lovely 45-button Jeffries anglo picked up at a flea market a couple of years ago for the equivalent of about £9.  :o  :)



#11 4to5to6

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 10:48 AM

A very similar concertina is on eBay right now with serial No. 1352, ledger dated 1847 (so the serial numbers really are all over the place). Not a lot of details and no mention of reed material. Bone buttons. The opening bid is £600 but no bids and it ends today. It's a UK only auction. Box is the standard vertical wood type similar to what Lachenal used.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271919591004

Edited by 4to5to6, 09 July 2015 - 10:52 AM.


#12 Wolf Molkentin

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 10:50 AM

(deleted)


Edited by blue eyed sailor, 09 July 2015 - 01:35 PM.


#13 tradbuzztrish

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 03:11 PM

Hi Guys

Thank you all for engaging in the debate to identify the date of the 48B Wheatstone. I am attaching pics of the reeds and the location of the serial number. Please advise me if you see anything that would throw some light on the age and authenticity of this concertina. Whatever the outcome of the deliberations I would love to see this instrument continue to be used to bring sweet music to audiences. I would prefer to keep it than see it used for parts. Maybe I will learn the fingering at a later date.

Trish 

 

 

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#14 Wolf Molkentin

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 04:04 PM

Trish, keeping the instrument would be much better IMO, try what you can make of the "English" fingering which is working a treat for me despite my affection for the bisonoric push/pull thing...

 

Best wishes - Wolf



#15 malcolm clapp

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 06:46 PM

 

The indexes for these years were not sequentia so a pain but it should be in there somewherel. I think I found serial 12313 with date 1864. If I have time tomorrow I will page through a few hundred pages and try to find it... r
 

John, save yourself a lot of time and trouble by using this program  http://www.concertin...ookup/index.htm

 

You will not find 12313 listed (I've looked), so for whatever reason it never appeared in the ledgers, hence my suggestion that the number *may* be incorrect.

 

Might be useful to bookmark the page for future reference though...

 

 

In recommending the abovementioned program, it has been pointed out to me that I should have, of course, acknowledged the research and authorship of Robert Gaskins and Wes Williams in making it available to us. Many thanks to you both for your time and effort.



#16 malcolm clapp

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:37 PM

Trish, thanks for posting the new photos.

 

The "serial number" is in a position where I wouldn't have expected it to be, and from the photo there is a hint of handwritten about it, rather than the more usual ink stamping.

 

I'm still not convinced that the concertina is as early as the number perports it to be. Not a bad thing, imho, and would tend to increase its value and suitability as a playing instrument, despite the possible loss of 40 odd years of antiquity.

 

If you are not yet tired of our questions, the wording on what appears to be an oval label glued to the bellows (I've only just noticed it!!!) may throw further light on the matter. It may have an address, and possibly a "By Appointment" inscription refering to "His" or "Her" Majesty's Letters Patent. It could tell us a lot....or a little....  :-)



#17 4to5to6

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 09:45 PM

Hi Malcolm,

 

I still think the serial is okay.  They took the time to re-glue the logo from the baffle to the bellows paper so it makes sense that they would also transfer over the serial. 

 

Trish, please take it a part again and gently pull the reed pan out.  The serial number will be stamped into the wood frame.  It is also stamped inside the action box but this can be trickier to reassemble,  Just put your finger in the reed pan pull hole and the reed pan will come free.

 

As I recall the label said By Her Majesties Letters and Patents, 20 conduit Street so pre King Edward (Jan, 1901)

 

John


Edited by 4to5to6, 09 July 2015 - 09:56 PM.


#18 malcolm clapp

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Posted 09 July 2015 - 11:24 PM

The serial number will be stamped into the wood frame.  It is also stamped inside the action box....

 

Not necessarily, John. My almost identical model has absolutely no trace of a serial number in any of the usual places nor elsewhere. Neither is there any evidence of it having been removed....

 

Trish, in spite of John's suggestion of taking the concertina apart any further, I would advise against undertaking any more disassembly than you feel comfortable with. That said, if you have the inclination to do so....   :)


Edited by malcolm clapp, 10 July 2015 - 06:07 AM.






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