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#55 Lars Hansen

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 01:25 PM

It is hard to tell from the last picture, but it looks like the internal walls of the frames are vertical. 

 

Lars:

 

How far long are you with your build?  What is your impression of these reeds? 

 

Thx.   Don. 

 

The internal walls are vertial, yes.

 

the build is still in the head - It'll happen, but not for a long time I think, too many melodeon-based projects to try out first.

 

But the general impression with the reeds is good, especially considering the pricing. Not in the class of good hand-made concertina reeds, but like someone said earlier in this thread, they're likely somewhere between accordion (hybrid) reeds and true concertina reeds. I have only tried them on a tuning-table, and the results were promising, when the tongue was set correctly.



#56 Dana Johnson

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 08:30 PM

Set correctly is the operative word. Don't count on them doing it right at the factory.

#57 Jake Middleton-Metcalfe

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 03:41 PM

I have an issue to report about harmonikas.cz - basically I ordered a set of their a-mano pro reeds and about half of the reeds are unusable for flat mounting in a squeeze box of any sort. 

 

There are two problems. The first is that the corners of the reed plates are rounded off in two dimentions - so the sides of the reed plates have rounded edges but also the top of the surface towards the corners rounds off as well, this makes it very diffucult to have a good airtight seal. (see image) The 2nd problem is that the part of the reed itself where it is riveted onto the plate extends all the way to the bottom edge on some reeds but not others! Again making those reeds very very difficult to flat mount. 

 

I think their frame punching dies must be knackered or something. Either way I am asking for a refund or replacement :( 20326614066_a4a2dba8d2_b.jpg


Edited by Jake of Hertford, 06 August 2015 - 03:42 PM.


#58 Theo

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 06:07 PM

The rounded off corners are fairly normal on accordion reed plates and I don't think they would present a sealing problem, even when fitted on a gasket and with the reed plate held in place with screws, and certainly would be a complete non-issue if you fix the reeds with wax.  The position of the reed head very close to the end of the plate I can see could present difficulties in a concertina where the mounting surface is flat, but in an accordion  would not present a problem as the end of the reed plate would be sitting in a corner formed between the side of the reed block and the base plate of the reed block.  Even in a concertina the reeds could be waxed in place without any problems of sealing.



#59 Jake Middleton-Metcalfe

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Posted 07 August 2015 - 05:15 AM

I agree that with wax it would not be a problem in a concertina. I wanted to avoid wax on this project, I don't feel it is as suitable a solution in a concertina as it is in a melodeon or accordion.

 

Morse concertinas have the problem that you cant remove a reed without taking it out of its wax. Perhaps this would not be a problem in my project if I simply made my concertina with a removable reed pan and waxed in the reeds and tuned the reeds with a scratcher while they are mounted in the reed pan which is disconnected from the instrument. In this way I would not have to remove the reeds from their pan to tune or tend to them. I didnt think of this before as last time I removed each reed and used a small single cut file to tune them.

 

What do you think of this new approach? 


Edited by Jake of Hertford, 07 August 2015 - 05:21 AM.


#60 Theo

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Posted 07 August 2015 - 06:27 AM

I find it much quicker to tune the reeds in situ, than to remove them, tune, then replace.  With the latter method I typically find I need to remove the reed more than once to get the pitch spot on.  It is the removing and replacing of the reed that takes the time.



#61 Dana Johnson

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Posted 08 August 2015 - 12:19 PM

Some people use a string gasket with screws, and it seals fine. The softness of the gasket material may cut out some high overtones, but with those reeds, that's not a bad thing. The reeds you show are pretty typical. As Theo says, for accordions it is a non issue and you bought accordion reeds. You can, with minimal work, use a three corner file to cut through the excess of the reed tab just past the rivet and break it off. The founded corners won't bother as long as you are resting on the flat part. Tuning off the instrument ( once you've made your tuning offset chart ) can be troublesome, because you may not get consistent clamping in your tuning jig. That can easily alter the pitch a few cents.

#62 Dana Johnson

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 07:32 AM

I'm a bit curious about the scratch on the back tuning method. Do they insert some sort of support through the pad hole to support the reed in the process? I don't have to deal with that of course, having access to both sides of the reed pan, but accordion reeds tend to get tuned that way, at least the ones in the chamber. I guess the reeds are close in pitch in the first place, but I often see long scratches across the neutral zone ( where the lightening pitch increasing effect is balanced by the thinning pitch decreasing effect ). Which seems like reed weakening with no real purpose. How do people decide where to scratch?
Dana

#63 Theo

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 07:51 AM

I do a lot of accordion reed tuning.  The scratching process on the hidden reed, the one that plays on draw, is quick and simple to do, but like any skill requires a bit o learning time and a god tool.  The crucial factor is to have a scratching tool that is kept super sharp.   The usual tool is a clylider of hardened tool steel ground flat on the end so there is a 90 degree cutting edge all around the periphery.  I use a medium/fine grade diamond sharpening plate to maintain the tool in good cutting condition, and typically give it a quick touch of the sharpening plate after anthing from half a dozen reeds have been tuned, depending on the hardness of the reed steel.  Most reeds don't need any support as long as the tool is sharp, the tool is presented to the reed surface at the optimum angle, and in the bending zone of the reed tongue, rather than the neutral zone.  The stiffness of the reed in the bending zone is usually enough to resist the cutting pressure.  So the decision where to scratch is really by feeling where there is sufficient resistance, it's a sort of mechanical feedback I suppose.



#64 Dana Johnson

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 11:09 PM

Thanks for the info Theo. I was wondering about the light high reeds, but they would need so little removed you wouldn't need more than a tiny scratch.
Dana

#65 Lars Hansen

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 04:28 AM

2r5uttc.jpg

 

Here's a commonly used technique for supporting 'draw' reeds when tuning accordion/melodeon reeds waxed in place.

 

A 0.3 mm brass triangle (about 2 cms wide at one end, 10 cms long) ending in a fine point is inserted at the end of the reed slot, and used as a 'lifter' to pull up the reeds. The friction between the lifter and the end of the reed tongue will pull the reed, making it "click", and allowing you to hold the lifter like in attached picture. This will support the reed for scratching (lowering), and for careful filing at the tip (raising). It takes a while to get used to, but after a few thousand reeds, the fingers will do it more or less automatically;) Please note, that the steel tool is only there to lift up the valve - it serves no purpose in the process, and it for clarity of the process on camera only.

 

Like Theo said, tuning reeds without removing them from the blocks is the norm, and if using a sharp scratcher, lowering is possible without using a lifter. I tend to go by feel. You can feel it when the scratcher works just right, and when it needs sharpening. As always, scrape once, check twice.



#66 MattA24

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 02:56 PM

Hello.

 

Although this thread has moved on (and died off) since my initial enquiry, I though I should pop back to add that I eventually succeeded in establishing communication with Harmonikas, and now have now received a jolly nice-looking set of reeds for my efforts.  :)






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