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Baritone/treble Aeola!

Wheatstone 56 keys.

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#37 Mike Pierceall

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 01:03 PM

Danny Chapman once told me that Dave Townsend plays a TT in a Baritone case.  I think that's what he told me.  Mike



#38 conzertino

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 02:23 PM

Danny Chapman once told me that Dave Townsend plays a TT in a Baritone case.  I think that's what he told me.  Mike

 

That's, what I said  -_-​  I have seen and played Dave's big TT!



#39 Mike Pierceall

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 12:54 PM

I have long wondered about that cryptic reference in the ledgers to a special BT.  Thanks for filling in the blanks.  Mike



#40 Rikki

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 03:00 AM

Another one of these BTs has come up at our local auction.  http://www.the-saler...8e-a45a010239df  .Looks like a definite model 14.  I'm currently in the process of buying a TT and I would have otherwise been tempted, but I'm going to pop along to the viewing out of pure curiosity; having never seen or tried one before.



#41 ceemonster

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 03:32 PM

I'm not greedy, I'll settle for a Baritone 48.... :rolleyes:



#42 Rikki

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 01:39 AM

Presumably a BT is a treble extended down rather than a baritone extended up?  Therefore different fingering than a normal baritone as the lowest note is on the opposite side, or am I just confusing myself again?


Edited by Rikki, 22 March 2015 - 01:39 AM.


#43 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 02:41 AM

Presumably a BT is a treble extended down rather than a baritone extended up?  Therefore different fingering than a normal baritone as the lowest note is on the opposite side, or am I just confusing myself again?

 Correct; a BT is a treble extended down.  They are like  TT's  except that they go further, down to G ( which will be on the left side), or low F on the right side in the case of a 64key model.

 

The fingering  is the same as a Treble  but usually the alignment of the thumb strap/ finger plate  is displaced  by one vertical row of buttons... so where the upper edge of the thumb strap on a treble ,TT and standard Baritone,  is  in line with the A button on the right ( G on the left) side, with a Baritone Treble  it aligns to the D on right side and C on left..

Also a quick ( at a distance) recognition  is that the centre line of the thumb straps of a BT are (usually) in-line with the End Bolts, so they are 'centrally' positioned on the end of the instrument  whereas  most other types of EC have the thumb straps positioned off centre in the direction of the player's body.  This means that the balance point is a little different  and all the buttons are placed  further  'up' towards the badge .

 

See the pictures on posts  10 and 11( and Geoff Crabb's drawings)  if my quick explaination is unclear  ( that would not surprise me),

 

Geoff.


Edited by Geoff Wooff, 22 March 2015 - 02:48 AM.


#44 Rikki

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 03:02 AM

Wow.  Thanks for the excellent answer Geoff.  I can perhaps see why these models were not so popular; as anyone familiar with playing a baritone may struggle to adapt to the change.  Personally I believe I would rather own  separate baritone and treble instruments and live with the fact that I can't get both ranges at the same time.  That said, I have little doubt that there are  players out there who will have no problem adapting.



#45 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 03:27 AM

Yes Rikki,   it can be slightly confusing  to play both a 'normal'  Treble  (TT or Bari)  positioned instrument and a BT. Sometimes I have made an intro ( on stage )  in a wrong key  because I habitually play the BT at home and  then swap to the Treble with the dance band.... can be embarrassing!

 

However, as I have probably written  earlier in this topic, I see the BT as an instrument for the Treble player who wishes to add some 'self accompaniment'  whilst they are playing the melody  in much the same way as one might on a TT. I came to this conclusion  because of the way the  lower notes are balanced against the treble octaves  on my own instrument.... as if it was designed that  chords in the bottom octave would allow an upper melody to shine through... well, that is the way I try to use it. :huh:


Edited by Geoff Wooff, 22 March 2015 - 03:34 AM.


#46 Chris Drinkwater

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 04:57 PM

Another one of these BTs has come up at our local auction.  http://www.the-saler...8e-a45a010239df  .Looks like a definite model 14.  I'm currently in the process of buying a TT and I would have otherwise been tempted, but I'm going to pop along to the viewing out of pure curiosity; having never seen or tried one before.

 

 

 

Looks like it is in need of some TLC. The bellows look worn and the plated ends are tarnished. It has seven-fold bellows, I notice. Also, the original case appears to have been repaired and painted black. Still, a nice concertina for someone. (I've already got a 64 key one, so won't be bidding!) 30131 dates from the 1st April 1924, according to the Wheatstone ledgers and is listed as a model 14.

 

Chris



#47 Rikki

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 01:53 AM

I went along to see it yesterday.  It is 8" across and starts at low G on the left hand side. In my opinion it is a Model 14 per the ledgers, but I am certainly no expert.

 

It has been tuned to concert pitch in the past and is now overdue a good tuning.  I suspect that it has been stored in someone's loft for a long time as it smells of mould. I'd probably want to replace the bellows just to help lose the smell, but if you could deal with the smell in another way then they may be repairable as I didn't identify any significant leaks.

 

I wouldn't pretend to have reasonable knowledge of restoration, but I believe that the case is probably not something you would want to keep. 

 

I had the opportunity to try a friend's 64 button BT on Monday, and it was in a significantly better condition than the one on offer.  For the limited times that I would use the Baritone notes for song accompaniment I think I would be better off buying a separate baritone so that I don't need to stretch for the treble notes the remainder of the time.  I could also then transfer the muscle memory to another baritone in due course.


Edited by Rikki, 25 March 2015 - 02:17 AM.


#48 Rikki

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 08:03 AM

Just went to a phone bidder for £2,300.



#49 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 01:04 PM

Many thanks Rikki,

 

for keeping us informed about the sale of this important concertina.  I  nearly  put in a commission bid  which would have  increased the price the  winning bidder  needed to pay by quite a chunk  but, I am currently sworn off buying any more concertinas... huh!... well perhaps untill the next time that is. B)






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