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Baritone/treble Aeola!

Wheatstone 56 keys.

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#1 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 05:58 AM

On Ebay currently( 13th Oct 2014) is a Baritone/Treble Aeola  with wooden ends, from 1922 , needing some tender care  but appears to be in otherwise good condition.

 

Looks to me like a replacement 8 fold Bellows by Crabb  with a case to match.

 

I have one so I'm not bidding  but want to alert others to the possibillity of aquiring  one of these .

 

Play it like a treble EC  with the option of decending a further octave below  which is great for harmonising whilst playing the melody at the same time in a 'normal' position..... The 56key version  is the smallest  Baritone /Treble  at just 8" across  and thus the most easily managed, just does not have the highest half octave of the Treble range.

 

Good hunting. :ph34r:

 

Geoff.


Edited by Geoff Wooff, 13 October 2014 - 06:02 AM.


#2 SteveS

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 06:48 AM

I'm not sure from the pictures whether it is in normal position or offset one row with the middle C forward of its normal position under the centre of the left hand thumbstrap.



#3 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 07:39 AM

I'm not sure from the pictures whether it is in normal position or offset one row with the middle C forward of its normal position under the centre of the left hand thumbstrap.

 

Comparing the pictures to my own B/T  the straps appear to be in the same position... that is  the upper side of the left hand thumb strap is in alignment with the centre line of the C button...  likewise the right hand thumb strap aligns with its upper side level with the D button.

 

A difference with the Little Finger Plate positions .. the Ebay B/T  has the upper end of the plates in line with the upper side of the straps... and my 1927 model has extra long  plates that reach one row of buttons higher ie  A on the right and G on the left ... about the position they would be on  a normal Treble.



#4 SteveS

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 09:09 AM

Geoff

 

Having looked at the pictures again, I'm not so sure about the positions of the buttons/notes.

 

Left side:

 

- if the middle C is aligned with the centre axis of the thumbstrap (normal position), that would mean the button closest to the wrist is F - this is the same arrangement as on a TT

- the low D which aligns with open edge of the finger plate would then be consistent with a TT

 

Right side:

 

- the centre screw of the finger plate aligns with the B (below middle C, normal position) - assuming normal positions of the buttons, this would mean the lost note is Eb - again this is consistent with a TT

- if the buttons are in normal position, then the C (octave below middle C) is missing

 

My conclusion is that the buttons are shifted from normal position.

 

If they are shifted one row, then the right handside lowest note becomes Ab, with C (octave below middle) present under the thumbstrap.  The left side will then have F aligned with the centre axis of the thumbstrap, and the lowest note on the left being a D.

 

What's confusing is that where'd I'd expect a low F on the right side, this button appears to be missing.

 

Is there something else going on?  This is a large instrument for a BT - is it possible the buttons are shifted 2 places?

 

Steve


Edited by SteveS, 14 October 2014 - 10:47 AM.


#5 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 10:14 AM

Well Steve,

No. 29395  is listed as a 56 key Baritone Treble of 8"  (but the model number is 20A  which is incorrect as it should be a model 14)  and  although the pictures are not taken  exactly 'square-on' it looks to me to have its thumb straps in exactly the same positions as my BT.  ??



#6 SteveS

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 10:57 AM

Thanks Geoff

It does appear to be consistent with a model 14, and offset by one row from the normal position in my opinion, from the pictures.

I'd really like a BT with no offset - with middle C in the normal position.



#7 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 12:03 PM

Steve,

I can see your desire to have a BT with straps in the 'normal' position  to aid  'instant positioning' when swaping instruments.  My BT having extra long finger plates to bring the closed ends to the same position as on a Treble (or TT)  does help with upper  note reaching, even though it then positions hands at a slightly different angle .  I'm sure it would not be difficult to move the thumb straps  or create a sliding plate for mounting them.

 

It can be confusing when changing from  'normal' to the down shifted strap  instrument.



#8 Geoffrey Crabb

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 09:27 AM

Hi all.

This post a has been heavily edited. 

 

Descriptive names for English models have varied over time and between makers and there can still be a lot of confusion deciphering the Wheatstone Æola descriptions in early pricelists.

 

In general, Æola:

 

                           Trebles range from G3 up,

 

                           Tenor –Trebles range from C3 up

 

                           Baritone –Trebles range from G2 up, 

                           Not transposed or Treble extended down

                           

                           Baritones range from G2 up.

                           Transposed or Baritone extended up

 

Note! On 56 button  Baritone –Treble and Baritone models the lowest G#2 may be F2

 

Please see the attachment that may make the situation clearer (I hope). :mellow:

 

 

Irrespective of the ledger entry, I believe that instrument No. 29395, the subject of this topic, is a Model 14 Baritone.-Treble  The clue being the position of the top two buttons (one missing) in the picture available of the left-hand side.

 

Because the notes are not transposed, as Geoff says in his OP,

Play it like a Treble EC  with the option of descending a further octave below  which is great for harmonising whilst playing the melody at the same time in a 'normal' position”

 

Geoffrey


Edited by Geoffrey Crabb, 17 October 2014 - 02:02 PM.


#9 SteveS

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 09:43 AM

Geoffrey

 

Many thanks for your input to the debate - and many thanks for the clarification of the different types of baritones.

 

As I suspected, the subject of this thread does appear to have the middle C shifted forward of its 'normal' position under the centre axis of the left hand thumbstrap.

My playing style is not to have the whole thumb through the strap, so to play this type of 'tina I think I'd have to adapt my fingering to suit.

 

Steve



#10 conzertino

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 01:16 PM

I doubt that it is a 20A baritone!

 

This is one ( 56 key baritone )

 

Barry1 (2).JPG

 

These are a 48 key baritone ( down to G ), a 64 key baritone ( down to F ) and a 64 key bass-baritone ( down to C )!

 

Baris.jpg

 

And these are three different baritone-trebles

 

BTs.jpg

 

We can ask Chris after the auction ended;-)

 

 

 

 

 

 



#11 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 01:57 PM

This is my 56 key Baritone Treble   Aeola  No. 31518  , a model 14 according to the Wheatstone ledgers.

 

Note the long finger plate and twisted thumb strap  where my thumb is pushed right in to it.

 

Bottom note is G on the left side.

Attached Thumbnails

  • P1000278.JPG

Edited by Geoff Wooff, 15 October 2014 - 01:59 PM.


#12 Mike Pierceall

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 01:27 AM

The first entry I found in the ledgers for a BT is 29678.  BT's were made in three models: 14, a 56-key 7-fold instrument; 15, a 62-key model with 8-fold bellows; and 16, a 64-key instrument with 8-fold bellows.  The serial number in the ad takes one to a model 20A and not a BT although the description says otherwise.  Mr. Crabb notes this accurately.



#13 JimLucas

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 12:09 PM

On Ebay currently( 13th Oct 2014) is a Baritone/Treble Aeola  with wooden ends, from 1922 , needing some tender care  but appears to be in otherwise good condition.

 

Is this auction already over?  I can't find it.

 

How about a link or an eBay item number?



#14 Mike Pierceall

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 01:00 PM

Still active.  Here is the item Number, Jim:  281466203957.



#15 JimLucas

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 01:33 PM

Still active.  Here is the item Number, Jim:  281466203957.

 

Ah, but on eBay it's listed as a tenor-treble.  One has to look up the serial number in the ledgers -- or the comment added at the bottom of the listing page -- to discover that it's really a baritone-teble.

 

Anyway, thanks for the info.



#16 Geoffrey Crabb

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 02:18 PM

Dear all, I have to confess that the original content of my previous post #8 was somewhat wrong.

 

As the result of discussion with Geoff Woof and Conzertino and much delving into ledgers and pricelists etc. I have heavily edited that post and replaced the attachment with what I believe to be correct.

 

Please review that post and the emended attachment. If you have downloaded the previous version please replace it.

 

Apologies if this has caused confusion.

 

Geoffrey 

 

Befuddled :wacko: of Bishop's Stortford



#17 Mike Pierceall

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 03:54 AM

I had one once and recorded a few hymns on it.  It is a bit of a workout, but the aluminum or tin reed frames did lighten it up a bit.  It took a fair amount of muscle to work the bellows.  I have one or two of the recordings on my Vimeo channel, Vox Convento, if anyone is interested in hearing a rare instrument.  Only about 125 were ever made.



#18 Chris Drinkwater

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 04:08 PM

This is the one!

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...?_trksid=p20476

 

Chris






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