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Tune Of The Month For October, 2014: Crested Hens


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#55 Tootler

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 01:55 AM

Here's my version.https://soundcloud.c...ce/crested-hens


Nicely done. You maintained a nice even tempo, not always easy when playing slowly. Good example of melody playing.

Nice indeed. Great to hear an example of the clean, clear melody

Yours was pretty good too.

#56 chas

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 01:59 PM

Scraping in by the skin of our teeth again.  Me and 'er indoors on the two trebles trying a couple of harmonies to Crested Hens.

Only time for one take, so the start is a bit random - both times through!



#57 Sarah Swett

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 11:32 AM

Scraping in by the skin of our teeth again.  Me and 'er indoors on the two trebles trying a couple of harmonies to Crested Hens.

Only time for one take, so the start is a bit random - both times through!

Oh my, but that was a treat. I really like the way the two melodic lines worked together.  Did you write the accompaniment?

 

And how fantastic to have melody and harmony on two instruments.  Not only do you get the pleasure of playing with someone else, but you avoid the finger contortions and honks of trying to accompany yourself.  Or so it seems to me….



#58 chas

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 06:08 PM

 

Scraping in by the skin of our teeth again.  Me and 'er indoors on the two trebles trying a couple of harmonies to Crested Hens.

Only time for one take, so the start is a bit random - both times through!

Oh my, but that was a treat. I really like the way the two melodic lines worked together.  Did you write the accompaniment?

 

And how fantastic to have melody and harmony on two instruments.  Not only do you get the pleasure of playing with someone else, but you avoid the finger contortions and honks of trying to accompany yourself.  Or so it seems to me….

 

 

Thanks.  Yes, I've been killing two birds with one stone by arranging TsOTM for my village band and also recording two of the parts on concertinas to post here.  I'll attach this arrangement.  Melody + bass line + one of the other lines works well - a bit too dense/busy playing all four parts at once.Attached File  Crested Hens.pdf   19.2KB   9 downloads

 



#59 David Barnert

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 04:05 PM

 

 

Here's my version.https://soundcloud.c...ce/crested-hens


Nicely done. You maintained a nice even tempo, not always easy when playing slowly. Good example of melody playing.

Nice indeed. Great to hear an example of the clean, clear melody

 

Sorry I'm going to have to be the bad guy here, but we're here to learn, and nobody will learn anything if nobody points out obvious problems with a performance.

 

This tune is in 3, and you have to feel the 3-beat pulse in your bones if you're going to play it with any degree of effectiveness. The same would be true if it were in 2 or 4 or any other time signature. Gerry is missing this inner sense of the beat as evidenced by the fact that he consistently (four times, every time it comes up) plays the C-natural in the B section as a quarter note (crochet) instead of a half note (minim), leaving a 2-beat measure.

 

So, Gerry, your homework is to learn how to internalize the beat, to make it more important than the notes, so that you are incapable of making a mistake like that, even if you play wrong notes.

 

And everyone else... If you really didn't hear the problem, you have the same assignment. And if you did, well, we need to learn how to constructively criticize, or, as I said, nobody will learn anything.



#60 Sarah Swett

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 05:44 PM

 

 

 

Here's my version.https://soundcloud.c...ce/crested-hens


Nicely done. You maintained a nice even tempo, not always easy when playing slowly. Good example of melody playing.

Nice indeed. Great to hear an example of the clean, clear melody

 

Sorry I'm going to have to be the bad guy here, but we're here to learn, and nobody will learn anything if nobody points out obvious problems with a performance.

 

This tune is in 3, and you have to feel the 3-beat pulse in your bones if you're going to play it with any degree of effectiveness. The same would be true if it were in 2 or 4 or any other time signature. Gerry is missing this inner sense of the beat as evidenced by the fact that he consistently (four times, every time it comes up) plays the C-natural in the B section as a quarter note (crochet) instead of a half note (minim), leaving a 2-beat measure.

 

So, Gerry, your homework is to learn how to internalize the beat, to make it more important than the notes, so that you are incapable of making a mistake like that, even if you play wrong notes.

 

And everyone else... If you really didn't hear the problem, you have the same assignment. And if you did, well, we need to learn how to constructively criticize, or, as I said, nobody will learn anything.

 

Thanks, David! Much appreciated.  Time for metronome and dance practice --though I've always been a waltzing klutz. 

Question --When using a metronome for tunes in 3/4, do you find it easiest to have it  beat once per measure to really emphasize the downbeat? Or is there a better approach? 



#61 Chris Drinkwater

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 08:30 AM

 

 

 

 

Here's my version.https://soundcloud.c...ce/crested-hens


Nicely done. You maintained a nice even tempo, not always easy when playing slowly. Good example of melody playing.

Nice indeed. Great to hear an example of the clean, clear melody

 

Sorry I'm going to have to be the bad guy here, but we're here to learn, and nobody will learn anything if nobody points out obvious problems with a performance.

 

This tune is in 3, and you have to feel the 3-beat pulse in your bones if you're going to play it with any degree of effectiveness. The same would be true if it were in 2 or 4 or any other time signature. Gerry is missing this inner sense of the beat as evidenced by the fact that he consistently (four times, every time it comes up) plays the C-natural in the B section as a quarter note (crochet) instead of a half note (minim), leaving a 2-beat measure.

 

So, Gerry, your homework is to learn how to internalize the beat, to make it more important than the notes, so that you are incapable of making a mistake like that, even if you play wrong notes.

 

And everyone else... If you really didn't hear the problem, you have the same assignment. And if you did, well, we need to learn how to constructively criticize, or, as I said, nobody will learn anything.

 

Thanks, David! Much appreciated.  Time for metronome and dance practice --though I've always been a waltzing klutz. 

Question --When using a metronome for tunes in 3/4, do you find it easiest to have it  beat once per measure to really emphasize the downbeat? Or is there a better approach? 

 

I have just listened to Gerry's version for the first time and I agree with David. The tune is being played "very flat" with very little rhythm or phrasing to it. I must admit that this tune has not appealed to me, which is why I have decided not to record and post my version of it here, however, I can still appreciate how the composer intends it to be played!

 

Chris



#62 DaveM

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 09:37 AM

 

 

Scraping in by the skin of our teeth again.  Me and 'er indoors on the two trebles trying a couple of harmonies to Crested Hens.

Only time for one take, so the start is a bit random - both times through!

Oh my, but that was a treat. I really like the way the two melodic lines worked together.  Did you write the accompaniment?

 

And how fantastic to have melody and harmony on two instruments.  Not only do you get the pleasure of playing with someone else, but you avoid the finger contortions and honks of trying to accompany yourself.  Or so it seems to me….

 

 

Thanks.  Yes, I've been killing two birds with one stone by arranging TsOTM for my village band and also recording two of the parts on concertinas to post here.  I'll attach this arrangement.  Melody + bass line + one of the other lines works well - a bit too dense/busy playing all four parts at once.attachicon.gifCrested Hens.pdf

 

 

 

Towards the end, when you're playing the 3rd staff as the accompaniment, you loose that voice in bars 3 and 7 of the B section because of all of the unisons.  For me, this is particularly noticeable in bar 7, where it is as though the 2nd concertina has stopped playing.  I like the strident rhythmic effect in bars 1 and 5 of the B section, and I want to hear it again in bars 3 and 7 too.


Edited by DaveM, 04 November 2014 - 09:38 AM.


#63 chas

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 01:42 PM


 

Towards the end, when you're playing the 3rd staff as the accompaniment, you loose that voice in bars 3 and 7 of the B section because of all of the unisons.  For me, this is particularly noticeable in bar 7, where it is as though the 2nd concertina has stopped playing.  I like the strident rhythmic effect in bars 1 and 5 of the B section, and I want to hear it again in bars 3 and 7 too.

 

Now you mention it it's obvious!  Thanks so much, Dave.  There's always a balance between getting a good harmony and producing a satisfactory counter-melody.  I clearly concentrated too much on the latter and took my eye off the former.  I'll play around with that again and see what comes out.



#64 David Barnert

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 10:12 AM

Thanks, David! Much appreciated.  Time for metronome and dance practice --though I've always been a waltzing klutz. 

Question --When using a metronome for tunes in 3/4, do you find it easiest to have it  beat once per measure to really emphasize the downbeat? Or is there a better approach?

 

To be honest, it has been years, nay, decades since I used a metronome. I have spent much of the past 40 years at Contra Dances and English Country Dances (Playford, etc.), for much of that time attending one or more every week. When I play, I feel myself pacing through the dances and it provides the beat. If dancing's not your thing, think through tunes as you're walking, using your pace as a timekeeper. Then when you play, conjure up the sensation of walking.

 

But in answer to your question, I would suggest setting the metronome at one tick per 3-beat measure. You don't want it one per beat, because you want the flexibility to warp the beats within the measure, not playing them as equal thirds. I could even see slowing the metronome down to one tick every four measures, to keep you on track without dictating minutiae.



#65 DaveM

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 02:18 PM

https://soundcloud.c...espouleshuppees

 

maybe the synth bass is a good idea, maybe not...



#66 Łukasz Martynowicz

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 04:33 PM

Dave, I think that synth bass is a good idea and I have enjoyed your recording, but I think it could be executed in a better way. Twofold:

 

- first of all, timing in multilayer rendition should be perfect, no matter what. With a single melody line, or even when playing melody&accompaniment on a single box, uneven rhytm or missed beats don't stand out as much as with multilayer recordings. 

 

- secondly, while bass line IMHO is good and fits this tune well, your rendition misses the "middle layer": you should add an accompaniment (drone or chordal harmonies, or a mix of both) inbetween your melody and bass line. Listen to what Tona is doing in his rendition of this very tune. He adds layers and changes them throughout the whole tune, to build up the tension and character, adding a "macro structure". Of course it requires great skill to play all such lines simultanously, but if you're already using postproduction mixing, why not go further with it and record a complete arrangement?



#67 DaveM

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 06:51 PM

Thanks Lukasz, those are good points.  I had worked up a middle voice, but haven't been able to execute it (on guitar) even to the level of quality of the melody. 

Even with multitracking, getting an arrangement as rich as Tona's seems like a stretch for me.



#68 Łukasz Martynowicz

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 06:29 AM

Don't give up and keep trying! Such stretches are the essence of progress :) Maybe revisit this project after a week, month, quarter and try again. This last ThOTM with revisiting first tunes gave me a great scope on my own progress and a chance to "do things right" with some of my favourite tunes in my repertoire.






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