[David Barnert]

caj, on Sep 16 2003, 11:42 PM, said:

Even the mixolydian tunes outnumber the aeolian ones.

No surprise. Mixolydian is also very comon in Irish tunes. That's the G scale with an F natural or D scale with C natural. Banish Misfortune, Red Haired Boy, etc. Real Aeolian is rare.

[caj]

JimLucas, on Sep 16 2003, 10:54 AM, said:

Quote

how do you deal with the E and B note problem

I use two different fingers. It's not as comfortable as some other button combinations, but it can be done.

My approach is to stick to a single fingering system as much as possible, but may employ an alternate fingering (the pull B, for instance) in a real pickle, say when two adjacent notes require the same finger, and in a really awkward way.

I think it's not a good idea to throw in alternate buttons whenever a phrase is awkward. These things aren't supposed to be smooth from the start---they should be awkward at first and become less so with practice. Nevertheless I think two push notes on the same finger, right after one another, and in a fast tune, justify an alternate fingering.

Caj

[JimLucas]

David Barnert, on Sep 16 2003, 10:49 PM, said:

caj, on Sep 16 2003, 11:42 PM, said:

Even the mixolydian tunes outnumber the aeolian ones.

No surprise. Mixolydian is also very comon in Irish tunes. That's the G scale with an F natural or D scale with C natural. Banish Misfortune, Red Haired Boy, etc. Real Aeolian is rare.

Then there are all those tunes which are neither, or both, or depend on who plays them.

When I first learned Banish Misfortune (30 or so years ago), the high F's in the beginning of the 3rd part (and only there) were always played as F-natural, most C's as natural but those in ascending runs as C#. These days almost nobody knows about the F-naturals, and many play all the C's the same.

I learned King of the Fairies with 1 sharp -- C's natural, not sharp, -- but these days nearly everybody seems to play it with C#. Another like that is Hardiman the Fiddler. Actually, I think there are a number of tunes where C-natural has been "replaced" with C# over those decades, and I wonder if it isn't due to the great increase in the number of whistle players, who find it easier to play C# in fast passages. In general, these tunes sound good with either C# or C-natural, but they don't sound the same.

[Michael Reid]

David Barnert, on Sep 16 2003, 09:49 PM, said:

Mixolydian is also very comon in Irish tunes. [...] Real Aeolian is rare.

Rare?

When I saw the post this morning (also David's) that said

Quote

E minor Irish tunes are generally (always??) actually in E dorian,

I did a quick mental poll. The first two E-modal tunes that popped into my head were (1) The White Petticoat, and (2) Trip to Sligo. Both, as it happens, are aeolian.

The "A" part of The White Petticoat sings out its aeolian-ness in the first phrase:

A|Bed cBA| GFE B,EG| ...

(The "B" part of the tune jumps among modes.)

While I learned Trip to Sligo in the aeolian mode, I think I've heard it also played dorian (c sharp, d natural), but I don't care for it that way.

As for abc transcriptions found on the Web, I've learned not to rely on the modal indications. Just now I searched JC's abc tune finder for Trip to Sligo and found several transcriptions labeled "A dorian." "Hmm," I thought, "I've never heard this tune played in an A mode." When I looked at them, though, they're clearly E aeolian. Whoever did those transcriptions notated them A dorian because that happened to give the "correct" key signature -- one sharp.

[David Barnert]

Michael Reid, on Sep 17 2003, 01:01 AM, said:

The first two E-modal tunes that popped into my head were (1) The White Petticoat, and (2) Trip to Sligo. Both, as it happens, are aeolian.

They are, indeed. They're just not the first ones *I* would think of. I'm not sure I would use the word "modal," either, to describe a tune in aeolian. I've usually heard that word used for mixolydian and dorian tunes among folkies.

Anyway, if I were asked to name some e-minor Irish tunes, I'd be more likely to name tunes along the lines of Old Grey Cat, Fingal's Cave, Swallowtail Jig, etc., all dorian.

Michael, it looks like we have some tune sharing to do at the Squeeze-In.

[Michael Reid]

David Barnert, on Sep 17 2003, 07:33 AM, said:

I'm not sure I would use the word "modal," either, to describe a tune in aeolian. I've usually heard that word used for mixolydian and dorian tunes among folkies.
[...]
Michael, it looks like we have some tune sharing to do at the Squeeze-In.

I've only recently come to an understanding of the modes, the result of having read Chris Smith's book, "Celtic Backup for All Musicians," on my vacation. Prior to that, everything that wasn't obviously "major" was, in my mind, simply "minor," with perhaps some odd accidentals (or not).

It's taken some drilling to get into my head the nature of the four modes that (Chris says) dominate Irish traditional music: Ionian, Mixolydian, Dorian, Aeolian (which I remember as "IMDA," together with a mental picture of the progression from Ionian through Aeolian).

That said, I'm still not certain whether the knowledge will improve my backup playing (on piano). It's easier for me to mentally hear what sounds right and to go with my gut feel than to intellectualize about it before playing a chord.

I'm much looking forward to tune-sharing at the Squeeze-In! And the Hurricane Isabel tracking maps keep looking better. Though I'm a bit worried about how my Chicago-to-Boston connection will be routed -- over the storm, around it ...? -- or whether it might be cancelled, since the scheduled flying time appears to coincide with the projected hurricane path over PA and NY ... see
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_a...ml/171458.shtml

[Helen]

Hi Michael,

Where did you get Chris Smith's book "Celtic Music for All Musicians"? I was trying to see if this person was a C.net member, but I couldn't find the name.
Thanks,
Helen Cusick

[Michael Reid]

Helen, on Sep 17 2003, 04:13 PM, said:

Where did you get Chris Smith's book "Celtic Music for All Musicians"?

Helen,

I was slightly off on the title, it's "Celtic Back-up for All Instrumentalists." It's a Mel Bay book+CD set, available from www.melbay.com. There's something very strange about their web site and search engine, as I had a hard time locating the book, and an even harder time trying to nail down a link to it that consistently works. (I failed at that.) You can find the book by doing a quick search from the home page on the product number, which is 97205BCD.

As suggested by the title, Chris plays back-up on bouzouki, guitar, etc. It's most useful for those who want to understand why "standard" harmony doesn't always work with Irish tunes, and which chords to play in which mode.

But wait, there's concertina relevance: Anglo concertinist Grey Larsen is pictured on the cover at a session with the author.

[Peter Cooper]

The answer to your question Alan is you appear to be playing drowsy Maggie an octave too high.Use the left hand for your E theright for your B and left 1st finger for the D.
Peter

[Helen]

Thanks Samantha and Michael for the info. Sorry, Samantha, I missed your reply earlier because I went straight to the second page. I will use the info from both of you and I have already checked out the site Samantha gave me. Thanks.

Helen