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Crabb 61K Crane Duet On Ebay - Another Scam?


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#37 danersen

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 09:01 AM

Thank you, Stephen.
I think I understand the distinction now.
Dan

#38 ceemonster

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 09:34 PM

of course,  literal accuracy is not required or expected in a business name, unless they are holding themselves out as literally that thing.  and they're not holding themselves out as dealers of antiquities. here, the term "antiquity" is being used in its loose colloquial sense of, "really, really old."    "antiquity music" rings to the ear much better than "antique music."  it's called "poetic license."    I get it. 

 

what I don't get is the "license" they are taking in the item descriptions of the concertinas posted in ebay, which seem to be lifted from postings by barleycorn, theo gibb, the music room UK, and/or auction descriptions.  if the description is lifted from elsewhere, does that mean that representations about the concertina's sound in the lifted description are false as to the instrument being sold by these people?  I mean, they even lift statements about the instrument's sound  "just as a crabb should sound" or whatever that line is.  ....



#39 Stephen Chambers

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 11:47 PM

... here, the term "antiquity" is being used in its loose colloquial sense of, "really, really old." ...

 

Oh dear, I'm a good bit older than some of the items they're selling, so I guess that makes me an "antiquity" too. :unsure:

 

Only, I think they're using the wrong descriptive word for what they're trying to convey - a much better one would be "antiquated" = outdated, behind the times, old-fashioned; continued from, resembling, or adhering to the past...



#40 alex_holden

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 01:24 AM

Only, I think they're using the wrong descriptive word for what they're trying to convey - a much better one would be "antiquated" = outdated, behind the times, old-fashioned; continued from, resembling, or adhering to the past...


I agree "antiquity" is technically wrong, but doesn't "antiquated" have negative connotations that you might not want to apply to the instruments you sell?

#41 JimLucas

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 03:15 AM

Only, I think they're using the wrong descriptive word for what they're trying to convey - a much better one would be "antiquated" = outdated, behind the times, old-fashioned; continued from, resembling, or adhering to the past...


I agree "antiquity" is technically wrong, but doesn't "antiquated" have negative connotations that you might not want to apply to the instruments you sell?

 

Is this yet another example of words meaning different things to different people?

 

To me, an "antique" is something old but at least possibly also functional.  An "antiquity", on the other hand, would be so old as to be suitable only for display purposes.  And "antiquated" implies that there are better contemporary alternatives.


Edited by JimLucas, 30 March 2014 - 03:16 AM.


#42 Theo

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 05:34 AM

 
what I don't get is the "license" they are taking in the item descriptions of the concertinas posted in ebay, which seem to be lifted from postings by barleycorn, theo gibb, the music room UK, and/or auction descriptions.  if the description is lifted from elsewhere


If appreciate a link to any that use my descriptions and will report them to ebay.
Theo

#43 Stephen Chambers

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 08:14 AM

... doesn't "antiquated" have negative connotations that you might not want to apply to the instruments you sell?

 

It can Alex, but it can have charm and be "cool" too, look at "Steampunk"! ;)

 

And looking at many of the instruments Antiquity Music offer on hire (which seems to be more what they do, rather than selling them) then I think the definitions I gave very appropriate, and especially the latter one, about "continued from, resembling, or adhering to the past", when you look at the wheelharp they're promoting.

 

In fact they seem to be playing on the rather contradictory notion of the novelty of old outmoded sounds, especially for rock bands...

 

To me, an ... "antiquity" ... would be so old as to be suitable only for display purposes.

 

Yes, and for that matter, antiquities have often been laying buried underground for several millenia... :blink:



#44 sqzbx

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 01:21 PM

I’ve been looking up this concertina on ebay (looks like the seller relisted it at $2399) and found this forum discussion as a result. Just wanted to weigh in.

 

Looks like the seller now has two positive recent feedback, and has revised the listing with all new original pictures, and now states that all the notes play and sound great and in tune, that there is no ciphering, and that the concertina bellows are tight and performs well under a “hang test”.

 

Also, I just took a look at the seller’s feedback from his old ebay username (antiquitymusic_com), and he received a positive feedback for an equally expensive Lachenal Edeophone back in January 2014. 

 

Sure doesn’t seem like a scam to me...



#45 JimLucas

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 01:39 PM

Sure doesn’t seem like a scam to me...

 

No.  Though there's some criticism of the seller's way of doing business, this thread seems to have pretty well established that it's not a scam.

 

But since no one but the administrators -- not even the person who started the topic -- can change a topic's title, the word "Scam" remains up there at the top.



#46 danersen

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 01:55 PM

I'm still curious to see photos of the inside given this description by the auction house:

Description:
A concertina, by J Crabb and Son, in its original leather case, one end with 27 buttons, the other 34 buttons, case with part of original paper label

CONDITION REPORT:
Bellows corners pushed in. Metal bracket repair on one corner. Pushed in fret on one end. Inside of box in poor condition.

NOW, that said.

Does "box" in the condition report refer to the "case" as referenced in the description, above?
OR
Does "box" in the condition report refer to the actual concertina?

AND ...
Do auction houses open up concertinas for inspection?

#47 ceemonster

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 05:39 PM

these are all good questions.  friday i called these people because, natch, not only will they not see you on the weekend, it's "by appointment only " even during the week, though their voicemail lists regular business hours.  and there was only the voicemail.  i left a message saying i was going to start over there and check again in a bit.  [the megalopolis where i live and this instrument is located, is almost impossible to cross on a friday afternoon.]  halfway there, inching along in gridlocked traffic, i called again, still no one answering.  so i gave up and turned around and inched for another hour back to my office in the opposite direction.  i did leave my number, never heard anything.  they don't really care if anyone looks at it right here in the city where it is, probly....

 

given the new photos, etc., i do wish to see the thing...

 

i can't recall the crane player's name, but someone i emailed with crane questions last fall told me his was made by john connor.  it's a player who has very nice clips out there on the web somewhere, i'll have to retrace my crane-research steps to track it down.... i believe connor is formerly of crabb....so while wishing to see this 61b 1904ish crane given the new info and photos, i'm also kinda annoyed and wondering if my next crane should be made fresh rather than hassle with nonsense like this over an instrument needing serious investment for restoration...


Edited by ceemonster, 31 March 2014 - 05:44 PM.


#48 Dieppe

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 05:45 PM

It's not a scam, but at worst is a small business who is in the business of buying musical instruments and reselling them making a profit. They watch auctions that the rest of us may not know about, or are just at the right place at the right time, have them shipped to the US, and then relist them at a markup.  They do restore *some* instruments, just not concertinas. Which is probably for the best, if you think about it, as concertina restorers know what the hell they're doing, and they would probably just cause permanent damage to the instruments. With that in mind, bid with the idea that you'll probably have to have it restored to make it playable. 



#49 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:53 PM

Price is down to $2399 (see http://www.ebay.com/...e-/161264297909) and they now have a bidder.

 



#50 sqzbx

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 06:28 PM

Also, looks like the seller has posted that he/she now has pictures of the reeds available



#51 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 01:21 AM

And now it's back and down to $2299 at http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=161271693347, including a photo of the reeds from one side. Seller says it was "relisted due to an uncommunicative nonpaying bidder."

 

Price is down to $2399 (see http://www.ebay.com/...e-/161264297909) and they now have a bidder.


Edited by Daniel Hersh, 09 April 2014 - 01:22 AM.


#52 ceemonster

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 02:13 AM

[Seller says it was "relisted due to an uncommunicative nonpaying bidder."]]  more like, a come-on-bait bid that didn't catch any fish...

 

but i'm being cynical.  hell, perhaps i should try again to get ahold of them and go view it...i wish i could do my own restoration work...



#53 Greg Jowaisas

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 03:54 AM

Ceemonster:  "...I wish I could do my own restoration work." :unsure:

 

I believe there are more than a few cautionary tales concerning "be careful what you wish for!" ;)

 

Greg



#54 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 05:12 PM

perhaps i should try again to get ahold of them and go view it...

 

I hope you do - I would love to see a report on it.  Cullver City is a bit too far away from me to go see it myself.






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