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Crabb 61K Crane Duet On Ebay - Another Scam?


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#1 MatthewVanitas

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 11:06 PM

This auction looks a bit fishy: the photos are a little too nice, the seller doesn't seem to know much about concertinas at all... and has zero feedback. Other than that, annoyingly "I have no idea what I'm talking about but trust me this is a very valuable item!!!" prose, and the horribly spammy gimmick of including a photocopy of a catalog page to pseudo-justify putting keywords in the title.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=161243798140


J Crabb and Son concertina, catalogs Jeffries Wheatstone Lachenal accordion rare 61 BUTTONS, VERY RARE AND LARGE CONCERTINA
 
90dbn8.jpg
 
J Crabb and Son 61-key concertina
 
This beautiful and rare Crabb concertina features nickel-plated metal ends with thirty four metal keys on one end and twenty seven at the other. The buttons all work and all notes sound, though I am not a concertina expert and don't know whether everything works perfectly, nor whether this is an anglo, english, etc. The instrument sounds as one would expect of a Crabb, which rival Jeffries concertinas in value and sound quality - beautiful, responsive and loud. Crabbs of this size usually sell for $4500-6000, if you can find one, as one of this size is extremely rare. The metal plates on this one should polish up very nicely.
 
I will include a copy of pages from a catalog featuring Wheatstone, Jeffries and Lachenal concertinas if you purchase this concertina.

 

 

I don't follow the scam-auctions that closely, but is this a little off of the usual? I thought they usually did a better job hacking an account with established feedback, and copying some intelligent-sounding ad copy off an older auction so they sound informed. Or is this somehow a legit auction, just poorly planned?


Edited by MatthewVanitas, 10 March 2014 - 11:07 PM.


#2 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 11:53 PM

I would guess that it's a legit auction, but the price strikes me as high for an unrestored concertina in unknown condition from an unknown seller. Still, if I lived in the right part of California I would ask the buyer if I could look at it in person.

 

This auction looks a bit fishy: the photos are a little too nice, the seller doesn't seem to know much about concertinas at all... and has zero feedback. Other than that, annoyingly "I have no idea what I'm talking about but trust me this is a very valuable item!!!" prose, and the horribly spammy gimmick of including a photocopy of a catalog page to pseudo-justify putting keywords in the title.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=161243798140

 

I don't follow the scam-auctions that closely, but is this a little off of the usual? I thought they usually did a better job hacking an account with established feedback, and copying some intelligent-sounding ad copy off an older auction so they sound informed. Or is this somehow a legit auction, just poorly planned?



#3 ceemonster

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 03:08 AM

this has to be the scammer who posted this listing for a dilapidated-but-"valuable" Jeffries Duet not long ago, different seller moniker but also in southern california--- note the repeated language in the descriptions, viz, if you buy-it-now i'll tuck in pages from jeffries and lachenal catalogues, blah, blah, and also note the tag, "listing ended due to a mistake in the description"---yeah, right....

 

"don't be afraid to put in a reasonable best offer"  !!

 

http://www.ebay.com/...E-/281225513380



#4 blue eyed sailor

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 04:06 AM

However, it has been improved on  the offer in the meantime, you'd get the catalogue pages when having placed a winning bid as well...  B)


Edited by blue eyed sailor, 11 March 2014 - 04:55 AM.


#5 SteveS

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 04:07 AM

This instrument appeared at auction last week.  The photos in the present listing are taken from the auction catalogue entry.

 

Also, notice that the eBay vendor has 0 feedback.


Edited by SteveS, 11 March 2014 - 04:09 AM.


#6 Geoffrey Crabb

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 11:40 AM

This instrument appeared at auction last week.  The photos in the present listing are taken from the auction catalogue entry.

 

Also, notice that the eBay vendor has 0 feedback.

 

Auction listing and description can still be seen at

 

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/sworders/catalogue-id-2897996/lot-21096582

 

Unfortunately I was unaware of this sale and would have been interested in just seeing this truly rare instrument, for obvious reasons, especially also, as the auction house is only about three miles from my home.  :( 

 

I have posted a brief comment regarding the instrument in the Concertina History section.

 

Geoffrey



#7 MatthewVanitas

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 12:04 PM

Auction listing and description can still be seen at
 
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/sworders/catalogue-id-2897996/lot-21096582


Well, their descrip certainly varies from that of the current auction:

A concertina, by J Crabb and Son, in its original leather case, one end with 27 buttons, the other 34 buttons, case with part of original paper label

CONDITION REPORT:
Bellows corners pushed in. Metal bracket repair on one corner. Pushed in fret on one end. Inside of box in poor condition.
Estimate:

£300 - £400



#8 ceemonster

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:01 PM

this size & config would be my dream crabb crane...would love to have one like this to go with my huge one, which is itself only 67 notes (55-sixties is plenty for me), but the size of an 80b+ due to the reed scaling....... :rolleyes:


Edited by ceemonster, 11 March 2014 - 05:19 PM.


#9 blue eyed sailor

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:15 PM


This instrument appeared at auction last week.  The photos in the present listing are taken from the auction catalogue entry.
 
Also, notice that the eBay vendor has 0 feedback.

 
Auction listing and description can still be seen at
 
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/sworders/catalogue-id-2897996/lot-21096582
 
Unfortunately I was unaware of this sale and would have been interested in just seeing this truly rare instrument, for obvious reasons, especially also, as the auction house is only about three miles from my home.  :( 
 
I have posted a brief comment regarding the instrument in the Concertina History section.
 
Geoffrey
Perhaps it didn't sell?

#10 SteveS

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 06:05 PM

It did sell - I forget the exact hammer price, but it was something of the order of £1300.



#11 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:42 AM

It did sell - I forget the exact hammer price, but it was something of the order of £1300.

 

Could the auction buyer be the eBay seller?



#12 blue eyed sailor

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:55 AM

It did sell - I forget the exact hammer price, but it was something of the order of £1300.

 Could the auction buyer be the eBay seller?

Good to look upon it in another way... But when we take into account

1. Ceemonster's remark regarding the previous (likely to have been) scam, and

2. the auctioneer's describing the state of the instrument,

it will most likely be either scam of a non-owner as presumed or cheating with a description (and price!) far away from the adequate...

#13 ceemonster

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:34 PM

they are vacuuming and sucking descriptor language, photos, and other details from sales or listings elsewhere, including auctions.  i have seen language often used by Barleycorn, Theo Gibb's listings, auctions, and other sources, sucked into scam descriptors.  i have seen auction items in other scams.

 

i was devastated a year or so ago when my dream metal-ended Edeophone TT appeared in lovely restored condition on the bay, only to do some checking around and see the item in an auction listing that was a couple of years old....


Edited by ceemonster, 12 March 2014 - 05:34 PM.


#14 Stephen Chambers

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 10:40 PM

Some of the items being listed by marcmaudio seem to be in the inventory of Antiquity Music, who are based in Culver City where the eBay seller says he is.



#15 ceemonster

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 02:18 AM

antiquity music:  yeah, that is what i meant in my earlier post...

 

 

[this has to be the scammer who posted this listing for a dilapidated-but-"valuable" Jeffries Duet not long ago, different seller moniker but also in southern california--- note the repeated language in the descriptions, viz, if you buy-it-now i'll tuck in pages from jeffries and lachenal catalogues, blah, blah]

 

i see that they have a web site, but the address on it is for a ups. wonder if it is a POB. the whole thing sounds verrrry weird.


Edited by ceemonster, 18 March 2014 - 04:01 AM.


#16 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 09:12 PM

I can't know for sure, but I would guess that the seller either has the concertina or has an option to purchase it from the owner.  (Though I still think the price is too high.)  The seller has listed it several times on eBay along with a number of other expensive instruments, and his profile shows 8 completed sales in the last month or so with no negative feedback.  These aren't the marks of someone who is listing items that he doesn't actually have to sell.



#17 ceemonster

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 09:22 PM

ebay scammers often seed an ebay file with legit sales of cheap stuff to get their ebay numbers up.   

 

some of the description phrases come verbatim from past barleycorn postings or auction descriptions out there on google.  though, i guess you could be legit but sucking your descriptor language from elsewhere.

 

their facebook page does sound authentic, and there is other material out there about them on the web. the guy is a lawyer who says he found he could make money acquiring and turninig over rare instruments at a profit. he states that sometimes people are surprised and disappointed that they can't afford and are unable to buy his instruments,  which cost thousands of dollars...

https://www.facebook.../antiquitymusic

 

it just bugs me that the current Crane listing is not by "antiquity music." it's by a "marcmaudio" with no ebay history...the listing a couple months back for a jeffries duet was listed by "antiquity music"--

 

i live in the region and am getting curious enough to do some snooping around, but can't do it for a few days, too bogged down with work...


Edited by ceemonster, 24 March 2014 - 10:06 PM.


#18 danersen

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 10:45 PM

FWIW,
My eBay inquiry preceded here by the seller's reply.


Dear danersen,

I won't have pictures of the insides for a while. If you think that $2750 is a premium price for this rare concertina, look elsewhere

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 23, 2014, at 8:34 AM, "eBay Member: danersen" <<email address removed per ebay policy>> wrote:

From: danersen
To: marcmaudio
Subject: Re: danersen has sent a question about item #161251573754, ending on Mar-23-14 17:24:00 PDT - J Crabb and Son concertina, catalogs Jeffries Wheatstone Lachenal accordion rare
Sent Date: Mar-23-14 08:34:21 PDT

Dear marcmaudio,

Hello,
Do you have photos of the reeds and reed pans that you can send?
The external appearance suggests that there could be corrosion on the reeds and degradation of the internal parts.
This is critical to know given your listing price and no return policy as it may well require a substantial investment to restore it to proper playing condition.
A close-up photo of the oval name plate will also be very helpful.
FYI, while Crabb concertinas are highly regarded and Crane systems by Crabb are not plentiful, neither is the demand as it is not a widely-played system and has a very limited following.
This, along with the uncertainty of its condition, run contrary to your expectation that this concertina should/will sell at a premium price.
Thank you.




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