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wanted lachnal cheap

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#1 badok88

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 10:12 AM

Hello,

 

This is my first post and I am not sure that I am posting this in the right place. Sorry if I haven't posted in the right place.

 

I bought a couple of weeks ago, a German Galotta concertina and have gotten on quite well with it, however it is out of tune and on some of the notes is makes a peculiar sound - it sounds like two notes being played at the same time. I took it to a concertina person and he said it would cost quite allot to fix it and i was told it might not stay in tune for a long time. He suggested that I should buy a new (vintage) concertina such as a Lachenal.

 

I have been learning the D/G for about two weeks so I am wondering weather to learn C/G instead - I mainly want to play Irish traditional music or keep with d/g - I don't see many 30 button concertinas around in my price-range that are D/G.

 

I also would like to know what are my options in my price-range of 200-400 pounds. Should I buy a Stagi 30 button, a Lachenal 20 button or something else - I really would like to know the options. Are there any 22 or 26 button true concertinas in that price-range. I wouldn't mind having to get it tuned - as long as that was the only problem.

 

If it would be possible I would like to be able to see it before I make a decision on buying it - so somewhere with in 2 hours of London.

 

Would something like this be good: http://www.ebay.co.u...=item5af3d781b8

 

Badok88



#2 Tradewinds Ted

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 11:24 AM

I'm a relative beginner, but I think I can comment.

 

I have a 20 button C/G anglo Lachenal , which was already updated to modern tuning.  Mine was (is) in excellent condition, and I love playing it, and I love the sound.  The light comfortable feel, lovely woodwork and sweet tone are what sold me on my Lachenal 20 button, despite the limitations in keys.

 

But if you want to play Irish you will really need those C# reeds, to play in D major and you might be wanting an occasional G#(Ab) to play in A major.  I know I miss them. and am constantly tempted to buy another instrument to cover that need.  I probably will some day.

 

OK, as for C/G vs. G/D  -  It would make sense that the G/D would be better for playing in D, but from what I read, the traditional style of Irish playing is with the C/G played across the rows to get D, so the phrasing will be distinctly different.  But playing across the rows like that assumes you haves a 30 button or at least 24+ buttons

 

Yes 24 button instruments are available from time to time.  Most I've seen are old and in poor condition, or else well out of your stated price range, but you might find a gem.

 

For C/G 30 button, the Stagi can be a good instrument.  There is some significant variation in quality, but if you can check that you are getting a good one, then there you go!   But do make sure, because from what I read, there are some that aren't that good, and at least need some adjustments. Some people don't like the sound of the Stagi that well, and I would agree it doesn't have the sweet tone of my antique Lachenal, but on the other hand I have heard Bertram Levi claim that the Stagi sound blends better with the sound of a fiddle, and I have a recording of his that makes me tend to agree.

 

The Rochelle is a good choice for starting out, and often recommended.  These are said to be generally good quality, and several shops that sell it will offer you a full purchase price credit if you later move up to a fancier instrument from the same shop.  Sounds like a good deal.  Personally I found it a bit heavy and clunky when I tried it in the shop, even as a complete novice. and the Stagi suffers a somwhat from the same faults.  These are what still keep me from buying one now, as I really do appreciate my lovely little 20 button, and wouldn't want to move to a clunkier feel.

 

As for buying an instrument that needs tuning, but is otherwise in good repair - do be sure to check your budget!  if you are really limited to £200-£400 for the instrument, then a sginficant fraction of your budget could be used up just getting all the reeds in an old instrument updated to modern tuning, or if it is instead a matter of just a few reeds being badly out of tune, I guess I would question what condition the instrument is in that caused those reeds to get like that.  But I don't really know what it would cost, so maybe it that is OK.  Just worth checking out what tuning really costs before you buy such an instrument.


Edited by Tradewinds Ted, 12 August 2013 - 11:26 AM.


#3 badok88

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 11:36 AM

I'm a relative beginner, but I think I can comment.

 

I have a 20 button C/G anglo Lachenal , which was already updated to modern tuning.  Mine was (is) in excellent condition, and I love playing it, and I love the sound.  The light comfortable feel, lovely woodwork and sweet tone are what sold me on my Lachenal 20 button, despite the limitations in keys.

 

But if you want to play Irish you will really need those C# reeds, to play in D major and you might be wanting an occasional G#(Ab) to play in A major.  I know I miss them. and am constantly tempted to buy another instrument to cover that need.  I probably will some day.

 

OK, as for C/G vs. G/D  -  It would make sense that the G/D would be better for playing in D, but from what I read, the traditional style of Irish playing is with the C/G played across the rows to get D, so the phrasing will be distinctly different.  But playing across the rows like that assumes you haves a 30 button or at least 24+ buttons

 

Yes 24 button instruments are available from time to time.  Most I've seen are old and in poor condition, or else well out of your stated price range, but you might find a gem.

 

For C/G 30 button, the Stagi can be a good instrument.  There is some significant variation in quality, but if you can check that you are getting a good one, then there you go!   But do make sure, because from what I read, there are some that aren't that good, and at least need some adjustments. Some people don't like the sound of the Stagi that well, and I would agree it doesn't have the sweet tone of my antique Lachenal, but on the other hand I have heard Bertram Levi claim that the Stagi sound blends better with the sound of a fiddle, and I have a recording of his that makes me tend to agree.

 

The Rochelle is a good choice for starting out, and often recommended.  These are said to be generally good quality, and several shops that sell it will offer you a full purchase price credit if you later move up to a fancier instrument from the same shop.  Sounds like a good deal.  Personally I found it a bit heavy and clunky when I tried it in the shop, even as a complete novice. and the Stagi suffers a somwhat from the same faults.  These are what still keep me from buying one now, as I really do appreciate my lovely little 20 button, and wouldn't want to move to a clunkier feel.

 

As for buying an instrument that needs tuning, but is otherwise in good repair - do be sure to check your budget!  if you are really limited to £200-£400 for the instrument, then a sginficant fraction of your budget could be used up just getting all the reeds in an old instrument updated to modern tuning, or if it is instead a matter of just a few reeds being badly out of tune, I guess I would question what condition the instrument is in that caused those reeds to get like that.  But I don't really know what it would cost, so maybe it that is OK.  Just worth checking out what tuning really costs before you buy such an instrument.

Thank you for your response

 

I recently found (about five minuets ago!) a nice looking Jones on concertina.net that I might look into - my family and I are going to Devon soon. Its over budget however I might be able to ask for a lower price as it has been up with know response for quite some time.

 

http://www.concertin...300#entry148884

 

Badok88



#4 Anglogeezer

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 12:30 PM

Hi Badok88, welcome to the wide, wide world of concertinas!!

 

Here's a link to Hobgoblin Music's page of secondhand Anglos.

Most are above your budget but two caught my eye towards the bottom, a Gremlin Stagi 30 button and a Rochelle 30 button.

 

http://www.hobgoblin...econdhandPage=1

 

I still have a Gremlin, it was my second concertina and I learnt a lot with it. I've since moved on to a Marcus.

The Rochelle I have no knowledge of.

 

They also have a Lachenal 20 button for £495

 

Good hunting.

 

regards

Jake



#5 badok88

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:10 PM

Hi Badok88, welcome to the wide, wide world of concertinas!!

 

Here's a link to Hobgoblin Music's page of secondhand Anglos.

Most are above your budget but two caught my eye towards the bottom, a Gremlin Stagi 30 button and a Rochelle 30 button.

 

http://www.hobgoblin...econdhandPage=1

 

I still have a Gremlin, it was my second concertina and I learnt a lot with it. I've since moved on to a Marcus.

The Rochelle I have no knowledge of.

 

They also have a Lachenal 20 button for £495

 

Good hunting.

 

regards

Jake

Thank you for your response,

 

I will look into the Gremlin concertina - however if I am going to spend that much I might as well get the Jones I found earlier. I will take a look into the gremlin though as it looks very nice.

 

Badok88



#6 badok88

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:42 AM

Hello,

 

I saw on the box place a 20 button lachenal D/A would this be any good. What benefits does cross-rowing have. I know this was answered on the session however I still don't quite understand.

 

 

 

Badok88



#7 blue eyed sailor

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 06:58 AM

Remarks from a non-Anglo-player:

 

Playing accross the rows seems to have been established due to the huge amount of (cheaper) German 20b C/G concertinas available in Ireland at former times. From today's point of view it makes playing in D more difficult, but - the phrasing benefits from overcoming these difficulties.

 

If you are not devoted to "ITM" (in today's strict sense) but just want to play some Irish music you can of course do it more easily along the rows, be it on a C/G (if you don't want other players to join you) or an a G/D. A D/A might fit "Irish" needs as well (or even better?) but you would miss the "English" key of G then (no C natural).

 

Lachenals sound nice, and Theo Gibb has an excellent reputation as a (repairman and) seller of concertinas and melodeons. Those 250 GBP might be well invested therefore.. But you would have to make a decision then: keywise definitely Irish, but stylewise lesser "ITM" phrasing...

 

Anyway - good luck with your further concertina adventure...!


Edited by blue eyed sailor, 13 August 2013 - 07:22 AM.


#8 Chris Ghent

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:20 AM

If you are going to be serious about ITM and you buy anything less than a decent hybrid you will need to replace whatever it is before too long. This includes Stagi, Hohner, Rochelle, Lachenal, Jones, Gremlin, and nameless Chinese made. Consequently there are no points awarded for spending a lot of money on a cheap first concertina. A Rochelle will tell you more about yourself, concertinas and the music than a 20 key Lachenal. A 30 key C/G is the only logical choice.

#9 badok88

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 10:11 AM

Thank you for all of your responses,

 

I think my plan is to have a look at the Jones in Devon - as I am going on holiday there and if not look into a rochelle or other concertina like that.

 

Badok88



#10 Myrtle's cook

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 11:22 AM

Hi Badok88

 

If the Jones does not meet your requirements you might want to give Chris Algar at Barleycorn concertinas a call (easily found on Google). He is probably the biggest dealer in used concertinas and has broad knowledge of the subject and a very wide stock (he sometimes sells via Ebay, and I recall some of his restored Lachenal Anglos were in your sort of price range). He usually provides a guarentee, so if you encounter any problems you can fall back on this. He doesn't have a shop, so doesn't have the associated overheads.

 

You might also want to check out Theo's website (a member of this forum), he has a couple of modestly priced Anglos at present and again is someone who 'knows his concertinas' and is well regarded.http://www.theboxpla...ina/cat_13.html

 

Good luck - hope you find what you are looking for.



#11 badok88

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 11:31 AM

Hi Badok88

 

If the Jones does not meet your requirements you might want to give Chris Algar at Barleycorn concertinas a call (easily found on Google). He is probably the biggest dealer in used concertinas and has broad knowledge of the subject and a very wide stock (he sometimes sells via Ebay, and I recall some of his restored Lachenal Anglos were in your sort of price range). He usually provides a guarentee, so if you encounter any problems you can fall back on this. He doesn't have a shop, so doesn't have the associated overheads.

 

You might also want to check out Theo's website (a member of this forum), he has a couple of modestly priced Anglos at present and again is someone who 'knows his concertinas' and is well regarded.http://www.theboxpla...ina/cat_13.html

 

Good luck - hope you find what you are looking for.

Thank you for your response

 

I think that is what I will do if the Jones is not up to standard, by the way do you have any idea of the price range of a 26 button Jones.

 

Badok88



#12 maki

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:04 PM

Hello and welcome to the forum.

I'd like to wish you luck and success in your concertina quest.

Here is some possible perspective on your last question, be sure to look at dates, as the market has

had some serious ups and downs. Mostly ups, though.

 

http://www.concertin...?showtopic=8207

 

 

http://thesession.or...scussions/28770



#13 badok88

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:51 AM

Thank you for your response

 

For playing ITM as a beginner I think 26 buttons will be fine as most of the songs are in the key of DG.

 

Badok88



#14 Myrtle's cook

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 06:36 AM

 

Hi Badok88

 

If the Jones does not meet your requirements you might want to give Chris Algar at Barleycorn concertinas a call (easily found on Google). He is probably the biggest dealer in used concertinas and has broad knowledge of the subject and a very wide stock (he sometimes sells via Ebay, and I recall some of his restored Lachenal Anglos were in your sort of price range). He usually provides a guarentee, so if you encounter any problems you can fall back on this. He doesn't have a shop, so doesn't have the associated overheads.

 

You might also want to check out Theo's website (a member of this forum), he has a couple of modestly priced Anglos at present and again is someone who 'knows his concertinas' and is well regarded.http://www.theboxpla...ina/cat_13.html

 

Good luck - hope you find what you are looking for.

Thank you for your response

 

I think that is what I will do if the Jones is not up to standard, by the way do you have any idea of the price range of a 26 button Jones.

 

Badok88

 

 

I am no expert on the value of Anglos, but assuming the Jones is in decent playing condition then the price seems fair - the seller indicates that it came from Barleycorn (Chris Algar) three years ago, so unless it has suffered some sort of subsequent trauma then it ought still be a good player for its class.

 

I notice that Theo has suggested (on a parallel thread) trying out a few concertinas prior to any purchase. If you can get into London (I take it you are in Reading from your member info) the Hobgoblin store there has a reasonable range and usually someone who can play them over (so you can hear the potential of an instrument). This would give you some sort of benchmark before trying the Jones. You may well be struck by the differences in 'feel' and tone etc - and preferences in these areas are immensley personal. I was lucky enough to have a choice of nearly a dozen boxes when I bought my first concertina. I came out with quite a different concertina to the one I had been expecting to buy based on non playing research. That concertina is still with me 20years later and remains a pleasure to play (although I have been tempted to acquite others!). If you can get up to Whitby you will have a very wide selection to try in a supportive atmosphere (plus a super festival to dip into).



#15 badok88

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 07:29 AM

 

 

Hi Badok88

 

If the Jones does not meet your requirements you might want to give Chris Algar at Barleycorn concertinas a call (easily found on Google). He is probably the biggest dealer in used concertinas and has broad knowledge of the subject and a very wide stock (he sometimes sells via Ebay, and I recall some of his restored Lachenal Anglos were in your sort of price range). He usually provides a guarentee, so if you encounter any problems you can fall back on this. He doesn't have a shop, so doesn't have the associated overheads.

 

You might also want to check out Theo's website (a member of this forum), he has a couple of modestly priced Anglos at present and again is someone who 'knows his concertinas' and is well regarded.http://www.theboxpla...ina/cat_13.html

 

Good luck - hope you find what you are looking for.

Thank you for your response

 

I think that is what I will do if the Jones is not up to standard, by the way do you have any idea of the price range of a 26 button Jones.

 

Badok88

 

 

I am no expert on the value of Anglos, but assuming the Jones is in decent playing condition then the price seems fair - the seller indicates that it came from Barleycorn (Chris Algar) three years ago, so unless it has suffered some sort of subsequent trauma then it ought still be a good player for its class.

 

I notice that Theo has suggested (on a parallel thread) trying out a few concertinas prior to any purchase. If you can get into London (I take it you are in Reading from your member info) the Hobgoblin store there has a reasonable range and usually someone who can play them over (so you can hear the potential of an instrument). This would give you some sort of benchmark before trying the Jones. You may well be struck by the differences in 'feel' and tone etc - and preferences in these areas are immensley personal. I was lucky enough to have a choice of nearly a dozen boxes when I bought my first concertina. I came out with quite a different concertina to the one I had been expecting to buy based on non playing research. That concertina is still with me 20years later and remains a pleasure to play (although I have been tempted to acquite others!). If you can get up to Whitby you will have a very wide selection to try in a supportive atmosphere (plus a super festival to dip into).

Thank you very much

 

I am going to try and get to Whitby folk festival ti try out some concertinas there, I am in Canterbury at the moment so I can go to Hobgoblin thee although Broardstairs folk festival is there this week so there probably wont be much staff.

 

Badok88



#16 John Wild

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:55 PM

Hobgoblin may have a presence in the craft marquee near the bandstand in Broadstairs. Pip Ives - "the concertina man" at Hobgoblin Canterbury should certainly be around. I shall be around Broadstairs on Thursday and Friday. Say hello to anyone carrying a concertina case.

 

regards

 

John



#17 badok88

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:12 PM

Hobgoblin may have a presence in the craft marquee near the bandstand in Broadstairs. Pip Ives - "the concertina man" at Hobgoblin Canterbury should certainly be around. I shall be around Broadstairs on Thursday and Friday. Say hello to anyone carrying a concertina case.

 

regards

 

John

Thank You for your response

 

I am with my grand parents at the moment - so I cant get to broardstairs for the rest of the week. When I was there I went to a guy (sorry forgotten his name) who was next to Hob Goblin, he showed me lots of Concertinas but they were all out of my price range.

 

Badok88



#18 Don Taylor

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:57 PM

Badok88

 

Just to warn you that if you do decide to go for a Rochelle and notice that you can get something that looks just like a Rochelle off the Internet for half price, or less, then do not assume that such a beast is really a Rochelle because it is not.

 

I think that the Concertina Connection uses the same Chinese-made carcass as these boxes, but the functional parts are not the same.  The only way to get a cheaper Rochelle is to look for a used one.  They do come up occasionally, but not that often.

 

Good luck,

 

Don.






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