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C Jeffries C/g Anglo

Jeffries Anglo

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#1 SqueezeCat

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:04 PM

C Jeffries CG Anglo with 45 keys.
 
The cartouche reads: C Jeffries, 12 Aldershot Rd, Kilburn NW6. Stamped on the left hand side is the text: A.G. Littleboy, April 25, 1925. The instrument has raised metal ends and seven fold bellows, which had been newly replaced when I purchased the instrument seven years ago. As expected from a Jeffries, the instrument has a clear, strong voice. The 45 keys give great  flexibility in chord choices and excellent opportunities for legato playing. I understand that a number of similar keyed Jeffries from this period were originally made as Jeffries Duets and later converted to Anglos. For this instrument there is little evidence of any conversion work, and I believe it to have always been an Anglo. As a player's instrument, it has been well maintained and is in great condition.
 
Additionally, the instrument comes with a modern bespoke case fitted by Kingham MTM Cases.
 
Thinning the Anglo side of the herd as I'm now concentrating on my Wicki/Hayden instrument, and feeling this fantastic instrument should be regularly enjoyed.
 
The usual cnet donation applies!
 
 
Asking Price: £5000.00
 
 
Keyboard: Attached File  Jeffries key layout.pdf   32.07KB   629 downloads
 
 
Photos:
 
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Edited by SqueezeCat, 19 June 2013 - 03:11 AM.


#2 SqueezeCat

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:32 AM

Theo Gibb will have this instrument for viewing at Whitby Folk Week.



#3 wayman

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:02 PM

Does it really have no F4 on the press, and two C4 drone buttons? Or is one of those buttons possibly erroneously notated?



#4 JimLucas

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:59 AM

Does it really have no F4 on the press, and two C4 drone buttons? Or is one of those buttons possibly erroneously notated?

 

I don't know that particular instrument, but I have a similar  45-button C/G (which I should be posting for sale) and had a 45-button G/D, and both have the LH "drone" (thumb) button opening on the same chamber as a button in the fourth row.  Different levers and pads, but the same chamber, hence the duplication.  On my C/G, it's not a true drone, but F/C.

 

I believe there's a discussion of this "feature" in an earlier thread, but I haven't time to look for it right now.  Maybe in a few days.



#5 Paul Groff

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:01 AM

 

Does it really have no F4 on the press, and two C4 drone buttons? Or is one of those buttons possibly erroneously notated?

 

I don't know that particular instrument, but I have a similar  45-button C/G (which I should be posting for sale) and had a 45-button G/D, and both have the LH "drone" (thumb) button opening on the same chamber as a button in the fourth row.  Different levers and pads, but the same chamber, hence the duplication.  On my C/G, it's not a true drone, but F/C.

 

I believe there's a discussion of this "feature" in an earlier thread, but I haven't time to look for it right now.  Maybe in a few days.

 

 

Hi all,

 

I agree Jim has likely identified what's going on here, with a slight addition as noted below.  Of course, without a photo of the reedpan we don't know whether this concertina has two buttons that allow air through the same chamber in the reedpan, but like Jim I have seen that design multiple times in the 4-row Jeffries anglos.

 

First, re: the notes present. On C/G anglos with a thumb button for the left hand, the C/C and F/C alternatives seem often to have been available as options for the first owner, or even interchanged later. 

 

Second, the reason those same press/draw notes are available from two different buttons:

 

On some of the 4-row Jeffries I've seen there is this single chamber in the reedpan for those notes with two buttons to allow air into it, the LH thumb button and a button for the LH index finger on the inside row.

 

I think one possible reason for this can be seen in some of the earlier 4-row instruments where that same inside row LH button for the index finger operates a bird whistle (novelty sound effect).  This requires only a tiny hole and chamber in the reedpan, too small for another 2 reeds.

 

If the player preferred to have the buttons sound "only notes, no novelty sound effects" as sometimes players do, one way to achieve that with minimum disruption of the pre-existing reedpan and action design would have been to provide dual access to that chamber already assigned to the LH thumb button.  This double option to access those same reeds might also have some utility in fingering, especially for players who don't have good mobility/independence for their left thumb.

 

PG


Edited by Paul Groff, 16 August 2013 - 05:44 AM.


#6 wayman

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 08:12 AM

Fascinating! Was the "two buttons to one chamber" accomplished by each button being connected by its own lever to its own pad (the pad pan having two holes adjacent to each other both above this chamber, each covered by a separate pad) or by some mechanical linkage where there was a single pad which could be lifted by either of the two buttons?

 

If the former, is there ever an intonation difference (as the two pad positions would result in different airflow through the chamber)? I know the ideal pad location is over the rivet end of a reed, not the tip end, and (at least with accordion reeds, not sure about with concertina reeds) this can make an enormous difference in the sound quality.

 

(Of course, with a 45-key, there are also some reeds under the action board as opposed to around the perimeter of the instrument -- possibly including the chamber in question -- which, as I recall from a previous discussion between Robin Harrison and Adrian Brown and others, results in tonal differences ... which might be be greater than any difference caused by pad location over a chamber?)

 

If the latter (a mechanical linkage of some sort), I would love to see photographs of the lever arms of such an instrument as well as hear whether both buttons feel similar to each other and the other buttons on the instrument -- in terms of pressure needed to move the pad, resistance from springs, motion lost due to mechanical transfer, and the like.

 

(On my customized 32-key Morse C/G, my left thumb has F#4/C4 and I've given up the duplicate G4/A4 reeds on the "G row" in favor of a F4/E4 reeds for that button -- all four of those notes are extremely useful in my playing style! I've also -- on the right side -- got an F#5 on the press in the exact same location as on this 45-key, and an F5 in nearly the same "pinky finger" location. ... At some point I'll just start a thread on locations of various "alternate notes" on different anglos of different numbers of buttons, and various custom layouts folks have developed, but before I start that thread I want to organize the data I've collected thusfar a bit more. As you might guess, this is a particular interest of mine, both theoretically as a player and practically as a concertina builder for R.Morse&Co.)

 

I'm actually more than mildly interested in this instrument, but given the (totally reasonable given the instrument, to be sure!) price it is of course a consideration not to be taken lightly (also, as sound and feel can vary widely among Jeffries, it's hard to really know how I'd like the instrument without handling and playing it, no easy feat for me, living in America). One further question: I've seen another Jeffries 45-key anglo where the buttons are of very small diameter (perhaps 3mm?); here in these photographs, they appear to be a bit larger (more like those I've seen on some 31-key Jeffries (perhaps 6mm?). Could you give their actual measurement? Thank you!


Edited by wayman, 16 August 2013 - 08:14 AM.


#7 Paul Groff

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 10:37 AM

Apologies to Squeezecat if this thread drift is seen as distracting, but evidently wayman's curiosity in purchasing the concertina is piqued, so maybe this is a good thing.  Wayman, while this instrument is for sale by Theo Gibb I'm sure you can get as well-informed and honest an evaluation of its condition as any seller could provide from a distance.  Looks nice to me from here!

 

The larger metal buttons are typical for this time period.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the pics posted by Squeezecat actually show the levers and pad for the LH thumb button and for the top button of the LH inside row. Look through the fretwork.  To me it looks as Jim describes his example, that there are separate levers and pads operated by two buttons, and that the pads are very closely aligned (so likely to open on the same rectangular chamber in the interior of the reedpan).

 

If I get a chance later I'll take and post a pic or two of an earlier 4 row Jeffries with the birdcall rather than double - keyed reeds (not for sale and so not competing with Squeezecat's beauty), to show how the levers, pads, birdcall, and reedpans are laid out in that example.

 

PG

 

edite to add:  OK, here are those pics.  Not Squeezecat's instrument, but an earlier example not for sale:

Attached Thumbnails

  • 45kBbF.sm.1.jpg
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  • 45k.BbF.sm3.jpg
  • 45k.BbF.sm4.jpg

Edited by Paul Groff, 16 August 2013 - 11:38 AM.


#8 SqueezeCat

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 05:38 AM

 

Does it really have no F4 on the press, and two C4 drone buttons? Or is one of those buttons possibly erroneously notated?

 
I don't know that particular instrument, but I have a similar  45-button C/G (which I should be posting for sale) and had a 45-button G/D, and both have the LH "drone" (thumb) button opening on the same chamber as a button in the fourth row.  Different levers and pads, but the same chamber, hence the duplication.  On my C/G, it's not a true drone, but F/C.
 
I believe there's a discussion of this "feature" in an earlier thread, but I haven't time to look for it right now.  Maybe in a few days.

 

Hi All, this is indeed the situation. There are different levers/keys for the same chamber. At one point I'd thought that I'd swap an F reed in, to have F on the press, but this isn't possible if one wants to retain the LH C drone under the thumb.

 

If you're in Whitby, have a play!



#9 JimLucas

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 04:42 PM

If I'm not mistaken, the pics posted by Squeezecat actually show the levers and pad for the LH thumb button and for the top button of the LH inside row. Look through the fretwork.  To me it looks as Jim describes his example, that there are separate levers and pads operated by two buttons, and that the pads are very closely aligned (so likely to open on the same rectangular chamber in the interior of the reedpan).


Here are some photos of my C/G, showing how it was done.
 
action.JPG
 
First, the action.
 
action_closeup.JPG

And a closeup, showing the paired pads.

under-action_groove.JPG

Then under the action board, showing a cutout groove connecting the two holes.

groove_closeup.JPG

And a closeup.

reed_pan.JPG

Finally, the reed pan, with the chamber accessed by both buttons/levers/pads/holes.

LH-pad_board_under_d4.JPG

This 45-button G/D has the same two buttons opening on a single chamber, but no connecting groove.



#10 Chris Ghent

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 12:05 AM

How was the tone difference in the note between the buttons..?



#11 JimLucas

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 01:54 AM

How was the tone difference in the note between the buttons..?

 

Sorry.  I don't have it with me at the moment, and I'm afraid I haven't paid much attention to that detail.

 

Seems to me that all anglos (at least those with non-radial reed arrangements) have noticeable tone differences (e.g., among the three "identical" G's or A's), but not enough to distract me.

 

I'll try to remember to pay close attention and report next time I have it in my possession, but that may be a while.



#12 Chris Ghent

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 06:58 AM

The reason I ask is, this is the sort of thing (shifting the padhole position in the chamber) harmonium makers did to justify a different stop, ie. clarinet, jubilant etc...

#13 JimLucas

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 01:26 PM

The reason I ask is, this is the sort of thing (shifting the padhole position in the chamber) harmonium makers did to justify a different stop, ie. clarinet, jubilant etc...

 

I'm pretty sure I would have noticed that kind of a difference, and I didn't, so I think it's fairly safe to say it's not the case.

 

But I will check carefully when I next get the chance.



#14 Robert Kehler

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 10:05 AM

Hello Chatty (i.e. owner of the C/G 45-button Jeffries),

Has the instrument already sold? Have you got a sound bite available?

RK
Nova Scotia

#15 Mark Davies

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 11:31 AM

Stephen Chambers,McNeills Music,Miltown Malbay,County Clare has currently got a very similar instrument for sale,I think in C/G

#16 JimLucas

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:49 PM

Hello Chatty (i.e. owner of the C/G 45-button Jeffries),

Has the instrument already sold? Have you got a sound bite available?

Stephen Chambers,McNeills Music,Miltown Malbay,County Clare has currently got a very similar instrument for sale,I think in C/G

 

And so do I.

 

There are a few photos and comments above.  I still need to post it properly, with more details (e.g., the exact keyboard layout).



#17 SqueezeCat

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 12:30 AM

Hello Chatty (i.e. owner of the C/G 45-button Jeffries),
Has the instrument already sold?

Hello Robert,

The instrument (which started this thread) is currently available through The Box Place via this link:

http://www.theboxpla...g/prod_392.html

Have you got a sound bite available?

Unfortunately I don't have a sound example, but I can say it has a typical strong Jeffries sound.

Edited by SqueezeCat, 25 December 2013 - 12:31 AM.


#18 Theo

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 09:37 AM

I can put together a sound sample next week. Please feel free to send me an email reminder!





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